Quite the write up. Love it. I think 13-15 are great holes at Keller but agree to disagree.
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This is a fantastic write up. Ive never played Pioneer and this made me want to so props for that. In the spirit of good debate Ill offer a defense of these Keller holes. I think this is actually where the course separates itself. If you have a good round going into these holes, you have to complete specific tests.
13 is uphill but a short iron. It can be tough but i dont find it unfair. After a par 5 I think its a good question to ask if you can actually hit a 9-PW in the air and judge the uphill. For golfers with a big right miss 14 can bring a good round to a close. It should just be iron wedge but whenever I hit a good iron something odd seems to happen to me on the green. It feels like 2 easy shots that I just cant complete and I dont know why. Maybe thats just me. Its my least favorite hole but I appreciate the challenge. 15 is a great par 3 for me. At this point in the round if youre trying to bring it home, can you hit a pure 200 yard shot? If you cant its pretty much double. I appreciate the thin line between par and double. I think 16 is a good par 5. Blind if you want to go in 2, easy if you dont. 17 is 17. Its awesome. Then 18 is in the classic tradition of the courses it was modeled on. Im not totally sure on the history but from what i understand the course was designed by a Ramsey civil engineer who studied Americas great courses to learn what he could. I like that 18 is just a simple yet classic straight hole with two fairway bunkers and two greenside bunkers. Does it look like every other muni hole in America? Sure. But it is a muni and with the clubhouse as the backdrop I think it fits well.
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I think those are all totally fair points! Especially 18, it does encapsulate the course as a whole very well. I donât think Iâll ever find 13 a good par 3, but I go back and forth on 14 and 15 being good vs bad, I can see both for sure.
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4 and 15 would be much better holes if they didnât have trampoline cart paths running right behind them.
I find 15 to be a very difficult hole, if the green surround was a little more forgiving I could be on board with it being a good hole. The dispersion pattern for the average golfer is much wider than they allow on that hole, and the fact that if you miss right you are stuck on tree roots or hard pan makes that a tough recovery shot.
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Atleast 4 is a mid to low iron for most players. 15 you have to carry 170 usually just to get it up, which is not easy to do for most and get it to still stop.befote the cart path.
I thought you and @phrodo just purposely hit into the blue dispersion circle on 15?
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15 is so difficult it has probably the most absurd drop area in the state
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14 and 15 are good but I legit thought I was going to get brained playing them. It was during a seniors league and it felt like D-day out there.
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Hearing a man lose his mind and angrily, non-ironically shouting âI havenât had a flat lie all day, this architect should be shot!â was the highlight of my Pioneer round. I think that gives it the edge over Keller
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Did you hit him with a âplay betterâ?
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Wonder what he thinks of Alister Mackenzie
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He probably doesnât know who he isâŚ
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Anybody got any open tee times this weekend? Got a house hotel Friday and Saturday and have nothing else to doâŚ
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@kcurry11 I am going to respectfully disagree with your analysis of hole 2 at Keller being below hole 2 at Pioneer. The right side of the centerline bunker is a better angle, but if you donât hit it past, have chance for a awkward sloped lie. While the left side is flatter, it forces you to take on the pretty deep front left bunkers. Also, I think the 2 green complex is very sick - little funnel to the front right/center, but runs away at the back a smidge. Iâve had easy birdies and absolutely train wreck triples - which to me is a sign of a good hole.
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I wouldnât say 2 at Keller is bad by any stretch, this was one of the hardest decisions for me in the hole by hole. I just think everything Keller has, Pioneer does it a little better (minus the bunker guarding the left side. If you take the easy tee shot down the right, you still have the opportunity to use the slope left of the green to feed in a shot, but if the pin is right you really have to take it right on or have a 50 foot putt. From the left, you can take on the small fairway off the tee (or risk being in the tall stuff left, or have a ball below the feet lie right), and leave yourself a level lie and basically take the slope front right out of play. Yes, Keller is still great, and offers some different options of play depending on pin/wind, but you and I both know that on a normal day, from the blues, we donât have to worry about that bunker at Keller at all. Pioneer still leaves some choice with the grass bunkers last the centerline if you clear it.
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Looking to make my membership of The North Star United officialâŚwhere to begin?
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Our guy @Battisstatus will welcome you in the morning, until then study up on Keller, Stoneridge, and Baker National.
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Hello @danavo714 and welcome
Our captain @bignanski will be the person to get you officially set you up but in the mean time
Whatâs your favorite public course in MN?
What restaurant served you the best steak you ever had?
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Welcome, brother! Looks like youâre a Refuge vet so Iâll spare you the whole âthis place can be overwhelmingâ bit. This is your anchor point, set this thread to Watching for regular updates. There are a couple others out there that you may want to track including the MN Match Play Thread and North Star United Events thread.
Hope to see you out there this year!
If anyone would like a 9:05am today this Friday at Baker National, itâs all yours. Just let me know and I wonât cancel it, if I donât hear any takers Iâll cancel it tonight.