Was just looking at the google aerial view. What the heck are those few holes between 3 green/4 tee at hillcrest and the HoA par 3?
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That’s the HOA “junior course”
Basically a three hole practice course the used for First Tee and other events. My son played it a bunch for First Tee
I won’t sit here and lie and Tell you I haven’t snuck up there there and played it a couple times.
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Back in the day there was a real hole at Blue River up there and a tee box to a par four that went down to number 8 green on the Rock/Par 3 course.
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^My idea from last year is looking possible 
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Agree 100% vinnie. They should do this
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The new owners have all the land inside the red boundary. The blue X’s are owned by Jackson County. Plenty of land to purchase from the county if they need more space for major events or whatever they have their sights set on.
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Personal preference would be to reorientate the current driving range more north/south (aka run more parallel to 3s fairway) utilizing that extra wooded area more and relocate the cart path to the right of 1 so that people could access the driving range without fear of getting killed by a tee ball off two like they would now.
While I love a driving range that is closer to the first tee (makes the whole experience way more communal when you have people warming up right next to where they are about to tee off aka the Milburn driving range, practice putting green, first tee situation), I really don’t want to see one of the 18 Donald Ross holes we have in the area lost, especially if they can put the green back to its original position (where the lower tee box for 9 is now).
Talking to old boys that used to play the course, 2’s green used to be absolutely diabolical. If the pin was in front and you ended up on the back of the green caddies would bring a putter and a wedge because the chances of holding the green putting back to front was almost impossible.
Here are the original descriptions of 2. Not noted is that instead of having to go down that massive trench there used to be a cool wooden bridge that you would walk over just like there was from 12 tee to the fairway, 16 (old 13) tee to the fairway, and 18 tee to the fairway. Also there used to be a stone wall to the right of the green that you would have to play over if you sliced (aggressively faded) your tee shot too far to the right.
From Donald Ross KC Star interview:
“For instance, No. 2 hole has a joint in it. Besides that hazards, there is a natural bunker thrown up to one side of the putting green. That leaves only one way of getting the ball up on the green - to go in on the other side. That will call for some golfing. Every other hole has distinctive characteristics. Kansas City should have no trouble getting national tournaments when this course is finished.”
1916 KC Star:
“357 yards; bogey 5, par 4. From the back tee 280 yards, from the middle tee 330 yards. A sliced dog leg. A deep ravine to be carried from the tee. To the right on the drive is out of bounds. The ground slopes to the left against a hooked drive strikes the slope and travels away from the green. A tree stands near the boundary on the right, it is necessary to play a drive with a slight slice around the tree in order to go toward the hole. The second shot requires a well pitched shot from a hanging lie to a green, semi circular in form, flanked on the right by a stone wall and a sand trap and on the left by a terrace, the green being 160 feet in the direction of play by ninety feet wide at the widest part. This green is the only one on the course where a player may have a 10-foot level putt. There is no other green where a 10-foot putt will not require the negotiation of some slope. The hole, in the judgment of players, is the sportiest hole in the West.”
1922 KC Star remodel article"
“Hole 2. the green has been trapped in the back, the right, and left.”
1922 Wester Am Article:
“No. 2. Par 4, distance 343 yards. Draw in front of tee, three feet deep. Should keep to the left. A roll takes you the center of the course, with a pitch to the green on 2. Green up on an elevation, cut out in face of bank. Back of the green lies a sand pit with a long terrace back with mound and a sand-faced pit at the bottom.”
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Yeah, the greensite a 2 was really the only thing good about that hole in recent years. Not that it couldn’t be salvageable with a crap ton of tree removal and fixing all the erosion that has taken place.
Given the type of course they sound like they want to turn it into, I don’t think they would get away with having the same crappy little driving range right off hole 2 like they have had. If they are going private, they could easily use that extra space they bought, build a much better range there, and put a parking lot right next to it so if you were going to just hit balls you park over there and practice. Still a nuisance for people that want to warm up before they play, but they wouldn’t be the only club in the area that has a long drive to a practice area from the clubhouse.
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1000% agree. I think the thing that made Hillcrest so interesting over the past decade is the “what if they removed some trees, spent some money on the irrigation/stormwater management, and actually maintained the place” thought experiment. This whole plan by the new ownership group is going to come down to those things. Luckily based on what I saw when I drove by they are doing the tree removal part.
You are right. There is no way that they can just put lipstick on the current driving range. They are going to have to either find a new place (where you have it is basically where the old 60s/70s 8 iron only driving range used to be) or completely change the orientation of the current range. My fear with any internal driving ranges is you end up dodging golf balls on the holes near the driving range (Mission Hills and Milburn on #2 are my best examples). For some reason clubs hate the idea of nets even though they are effective. Pretty sure I would have killed multiple people on 10 tee at Eagles Landing with my 3 wood snap hook if not for the net on the left of their driving range.
Unfortunately, given the site constraints I am not sure if there is really a great place for the driving range.
One of the non-implemented plans from 70s done by Marvin Ferguson (Wolf Creek designer) was to completely get rid of 1 and use that area as the driving range. His idea was to basically blow up the entire course and restart so the members rejected most (outside his redesign of 14 with a pond) of his plan.
I think it could be feasible to turn the area currently occupied by 1, 2 tee, and the pool area as a driving range and essentially replicate the current 1 and 2 in current short game, driving range, and 2 location. That would take a shit ton of earth work, but in the end might be a decent (although not cost-effective) solution.
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Another option I’d be willing to entertain, I think you could get rid of hole #1. Nothing about it screams Donald Ross to me, I think an opening Par 3 is pretty lame (either as hole 1 or 10), and you could change the routing to get rid of the two consecutive par 5’s.
I like doing shitty course renovations using autoshape in the office suite products, so here’s my 5 minute take on what they could do with that idea:
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There is room back there, you could literally do the same three hole template, down to the yardages if you wanted, just in a different order. 1 becomes 3, 2 shifts, 3 becomes 1.
Or do they continue to lean into that brutal opener?
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I also basically restated what Vinny was saying, but my point is, you can keep the Ross holes (for the most part)
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That is actually pretty close to what Ferguson suggested for that portion of the course. Here is the Ferguson plan. Based on what I was told, losing 1 and 10, his total redesign of the back, and the cost of all of it were the reasons why it was not selected.
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Non starter for me personally
While I rarely parred and never birdied it I liked the uniqueness it brought to the course. That combined with Arnies(?) Quote about the hole and I think it brings too much course chsrscter to eliminate. Now if only RH would ask my opinion we could really get going
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I’ve definitely mentioned it in here before, but especially when it was public, I always wondered why they never flipped the 9s at Hillcrest. Start with a long par 5 to get groups off instead of an impossible par 3.
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If uniqueness is something they are going for on that hole, I think they need to go all the way in. I played a superintendent’s revenge scramble there a few years back and we tee’d off from the roof. Move the tee on top of the clubhouse if we keep that hole.
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Have done the same, was a diabolical time
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https://www.equip-bid.com/auction/33105 Happy bidding, but I am sure one you golf junkies need this. I will return to catching on the Hillcrest talk.
7th item, sorry I forgot that
Wuuuuttttt?!
I’ve got a bucket list kinda working for KC area courses, and two I wanna cross off before the season ends is Blue Hills and Indian Hills. Any members of these two clubs willing to accompany a great hang for a round?