Roll Call: KC Area

Not the clearest photo, but the area circled in yellow is the original green site. Specifically, the trees in the middle of the circle where put at the back of the green in the 60s as player safety trees to stop bladed shots from hitting people on 9’s tee.

Also @aborgmann it was Ray Floyd who said it was the hardest opening hole he had ever played. The quote is referenced in this article about the course (that actually led to some defamation litigation) by ex-Hillcrest member/golf sicko John Garrity.

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Oakmont would like a word with Mr. Floyd

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Hey yall, moved to area for grad school for the next year. Hope to get involved once I get the schedule figured out. Looking forward to it.

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DM me! I’ll shoot you the discord and the event sheet links.

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Been saving this one because it might be one of the most golf course architecture nerd significant holes at Hillcrest/Kansas City/nationally because it is a rare example of Donald Ross utilizing a template hole.

If you read the description from the 1916 KC Star article, the 4th at Hillcrest is specifically called out as a template Alps hole. This is significant because unlike MacDonald, Raynor, and other golden age architects, Donald Ross was not know to utilize template holes. When reading through the other hole descriptions from the 1916 KC Star article, there may be others (7 sounds a lot like an Eden, 11 has a lot of Redan like characteristics, 17 might be a bunkers instead of water Cape, and the green on 18 (not the tee shot) could have been a Road Hole), but 4 is the only one specifically called out.

Alps template description from the shooters over at the Fried Egg:
“The Alps par-4 design typically ranges from 400-430 yards in length and is defined by its blind second shot, typically over a hill. Cross bunkers guard the front of the green, hazards the player is unable to see from the fairway. Relief comes int the form of the punchbowl green complex that allows offline shots to funnel back to the green. Over the years, many of the front bunkers were filled in by uneducated greens committees who felt the bunkers were too unfair and penal.”

This hole lost a ton of bunkers over the years. Looking at old aerials (shout out historicaerials.com) there used to be what looks like 7 deep bunkers around the green (3 on the right side and 4 on the left), an additional fairway bunker on the right about 100 yards away from the hole, and a fairway bunker 130 yards on the left off the tee.

1916 KC Star Article:
“From the rear tee 445 yards; from the front tee 433 yards; from the ladies tee 295 yards. Bogey 5, par 5. An Alps hole with many features. The ground in front of the putting green rise rapidly to the edge of the green and a deep trap, 119 yards from the rear tee must be carried on the drive which is directly into the prevailing wind. The second shot should be played to the left of the fairway in order that the approach may be properly pitched onto the green which slopes sharply to the left and is flanked on that side by difficult sand traps. A second shot played in this way has an easy carry over a deep sand trap, while a ball played straight toward the green must carry a deeper and more difficult trap closer to the green.”

1922 Western Am Article
“Par 5, distance 454 yards. A good drive and an iron shot. On the drive, about 130 yards, are sand pits. On the second are sand pits in the middle of fairway. Diagonally to the left of the green are sand pits and mounds. To the right are more mounds and sand pit.”

2000s Tripp remodel
reshape the fairway to get rid of the massive run off on the left of the fairway, adds a new fairway bunker 250ish yards off the tee, and created a big run off/chipping area long of the green. None of these proposals were done.

Personal opinion, this hole should be shortened and turned into a long par 4 if they turn 8 back into a par 5. Utilize the middle tee box, get rid of the back tee box, play the hole as a 440 par 4 from the tips, and restore the original bunkering. This would break up the back to back par 5 issue and would make this one of the harder par 4s in the area.

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Cannot figure out the overlay on this one. Here’s my best shot:

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Demo permit for the clubhouse and pool house at Hillcrest was filed on Friday. Hopefully this means we are closish to hearing their actual plans.

https://compasskc.kcmo.org/EnerGov_Prod/SelfService/#/permit/0e5d1421-e32d-4576-9c77-af54d811d354?tab=contacts

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I still contend that that clubhouse could be awesome, but it may be too far down the road structurally to save. Plus, if they place it differently on the property, they can do some cool things with a larger short game area and putting green.

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Hi KC Folks! A bit last minute but I’m going to be in KC this weekend. I have time for one round Sunday morning.

Question for y’all - I have a life goal to play golf in all 50 states. I live in MO so that box is checked, but was looking for something worth playing on the KS side. The question…

Anything public and good enough on the KS side to check out? or…should I just play Swope and try to do KS some other time?

Thanks!

Sykes/Lady, St. Andrews, and Ironhorse are all metro and worth playing to tick Kansas off the box. If you haven’t played Swope that would be worth it though since they are going to close it for a full renovation after this season.

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Depending on where you’re at in the metro, Sycamore Ridge and Falcon Lakes are also fun tracks on the KS side, just a bit further from the city center.

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I think most here would contend the best options for public golf in KS close to metro would be Sycamore Ridge, IronHorse,Dubs Dread & St Andrews. Heritage Park and Sunflower Hills if you don’t mind a local that’s a little rough around the edges but holds a space for some.

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Do not envy the gals playing in the Women’s AM today. 36 holes in 112 heat index. And the course is beating them up a bit.

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Absolutely pouring in topeka this morning, delay start for the Men’s Am. Maybe it will keep it cooler than a million degrees though.

Hearing highs in the 80s today! Are they playing Topeka CC?

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Yessir. I haven’t had the pleasure of playing it since their major tree removal. I believe it was discussed somewhere in this thread before how much cooler that place could be if they took about 200 trees out.

And they took out more than that.

Practice areas to open at 9:45 balls in the air at 10:15.

Anyone play is the KC AM this weekend? Wanted to know thoughts on my home course? It’s in great shape and I know that it was not going to get torched, but -2 winner seems like it played pretty hard.

Not sure I why I replied.

For anyone interested: looking to play either Wednesday or Thursday if anyone else is interested. I will be playing persimmons and old Hogan irons because I’m a sicko.

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I just realized one of my coworkers did, I’ll have to ask him

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2024/08/16/hillcrest-golf-club-course-demolition-635-holdings.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_48&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

More details including first picture of the new clubhouse.
Interesting nuggets

  1. another “top 100 course” drop
  2. new clubhouse north and west of current site that looks like it incorporates some of the existing chimneys
  3. 400 yard driving range
  4. working with Tripp Davis and the Donald Ross Society on design. In a tweet Heineman called it a “new course with Donald Ross characteristics.” No clue what that means but DRS being involved is interesting.
  5. Budget now 30,000,000
  6. looks like the are going back to the original Hillcrest interlocking H C C branding based on Heinemans Twitter profile and the new account Hillcrest1915
  7. opening is now 2026 with preview play in 2025.
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