Ebay may be your friend here if you don’t find anything locally. Decent chance you can find something a little less spendy than buying totally new.
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yeah for sure
There and GolfWRX classifieds
Just thought I would put things into the universe here as well
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I would also throw an ISO out on the silk road. A lot of guys on there with extra sets sitting around they would be happy to send on, although lefty might be tough.
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yeah found a lefty only thread that i posted in also
lefty jumior in decent used condition is unicorn like
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Oh hey there
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Hey y’all, coming down from Minnesota to watch the twins take on the royals for Opening Day/Weekend and also play some golf for a buddies trip of sorts. We are looking to stay near the stadium or at least the east side of town and was hoping to get some insights on the golf side of things. Looking at Swope and after doing some research in this thread maybe WinterStone or Hillcrest? Anywhere else worth playing that would replace any of those?
Also, where’s the best BBQ place near the stadium/east side?
I’ll hang up and listen.
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Welcome, fellow 'Sotan. I’m further south, so wouldn’t be able to sync up, BUT I can definitely recommend BBQ.
- Slaps
T2. Q39/Jack Stack - Meat Mitch
- Char Bar
- Arthur Bryants
Lots of people love Joe’s (I could take it or leave it).
There are some up and coming places (starting to be more well known) - I’ve just never had the chance to try them.
Harp
Chef J
Big T’s
It depends on what type of golf/challenge you’re looking for, but you’re on the right track. Personally I’d choose Winterstone over Hillcrest simply due to conditioning, but Winterstone is also one of my favorite layouts. The other east courses to strongly consider would be Stone Canyon and Adams Pointe. Swope is a must play if you at all enjoy golden age courses.
Edit to add a BBQ recommendation on the east side: in Independence there’s a place called A Little BBQ Joint which I thought was outstanding and a cool unexpected vibe inside.
I assume Hillcrest will be closed and/or private since it was just bought, but in any case Swope is the one to play in that neighborhood. Stone Canyon is good, can be tough since the Shark is a bit of a sadist. Winter stone is fun, kind of a hidden gem imo due to its location.
BBQ:
LC’s and Big Ts are both like 5 minutes from Swope and they rock. @RetiredClubPro is right on Slap’s, that’s my favorite as well but it’s on the complete other side of town in KCK. The original Arthur Bryant’s is really good and on the near east side as well, could also check out the Negro League museum right there.
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I was trying to save the information in this post until the deal finally closed and the documents got recorded with the county/someone made a public statement so that there could be actual tangible discussion. HOWEVER I havent seen anything and I saw Hillcrest get mentioned so thought I would share old descriptions/aerials of the course. Same guy that sent me the last course description was “sixth time watching the new Trolls movie with the kids” bored over the holidays and found even more articles/descriptions of the course from its early days. Since I am so new, I can only post one media at a time. I will add the other articles as the day goes on.
Some things to note from the documents
- Donald Ross came back to Hillcrest in 1921 and tweaked the course ahead of the Western Amateur (won by certified hitter Chick Evans). I bring this up because a lot of times golden age architects would lay out the course and then not come back. At Hillcrest, Ross came back and made some pretty significant modifications (changed greens of 3,5,7, added a significant amount of bunkers).
- The super at the time (James Dangeliesh the “Father of KC Golf” and ex pro at Shinnecock) liked to keep everything tight, firm and fast and seems to have played a pretty significant role in actual carrying out Ross’s plan. Based on everything from these articles, it appears that Hillcrest was intended and designed to play as a much more link style course with a pretty heavy focus on playing the holes the way they are meant to be played.
- Somehow in 1921 the first hole was considered an “easy 3.” Insane seeing as how taking a four there for me is good result. I do agree with the break down calling 12 “[o]ne of the best holes in America.”
- The people involved with this course in the early days seem to have really wanted Hillcrest to be a top tier, national level course.
- Some really big heavy hitters have played out at Hillcrest.
- The Hillcrest described in these articles is a significantly better than what is out there today/what has been out there for the past 50 years. There were so many more hazards/features (mounds, “sand faced mounds”, bunkers, centerline trees on 5,6,10).
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As always, thank you for your service in bringing to light absolutely fascinating details of the Hillcrest saga. I think I speak for all when I say please keep up the good work. This is borderline big J work right here.
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Here is the hole by hole from a golf writer in Chicago before the Western Am. I noted his comments about 1 and 12 in the 3 from the original post. Not sure what “mounds with sand faces” are but it seems like Hillcrest used to have a lot of them. I know that when building Hillcrest they had to blow up a bunch old tree trunks and Ross loved him some chocolate drops, so I think that all these mounds could be left over debris from construction/addition of bunkers. The description of 17 (bunker in the center of the fairway, sand traps and bunkers with splashed faces to the right and left of the green) does sound like “[a] good hole.”
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@kirkeide1 Welcome to town my man! Please keep us posted on your whereabouts and plans!
I will say the stadiums are easy to get to and the lodging around there is lacking to say the least, so don’t pigeon hole yourself into the east side. Winterstone is good but challenging especially at that time of year. I’ll second Stone Canyon as a fun track and would also throw out Shoal Creek which is North East. Let us know if we can do anything else for you!
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Last one since I am sure that everyone that isn’t obsessed with Hillcrest is getting annoyed, but here is an aerial of the course from 1941. This is the earliest aerial that I could find since historicalaerials.com only goes back to 1948. I wont add since I can only post one jpeg at a time, but prior to this tournament Hillcrest hosted the 1938 KC Open (some real big hitters played in that including Byron Nelson) and it seems like the only significant changes to the course from at least 1938 until 1941 was expanding 5 green and the green on 15 was rebuilt to make the hole longer.
Some interesting notes from the picture.
- I think that you can roughly make out the stone wall in front of the green on 2. The green on 2 looks like it is essentially where the lower tee box for 9 is now, which means that the current position of 2’s green is actually the third location for the green.
- 6, 16, and 17 all played 10ish yards longer in 1941 vs. today
- 10 had a centerline tree.
- There was a ton of bunkers in between 13 and 15, which is now all grass and trees. Generally, there were way more bunkers on the course in 1941 compared with today.
- Looking back in this topic it appears that there was some discussion regarding how to fix 9 and based on this aerial and the 1948 aerial I found online it looks like trying to make the area between 1,2, and 9 a driving range/short game practice area actually caused the huge run off problem. Prior to trying to make that a driving range/short game practice facility there was only a small/steep creek that ran through the area and not a 100 yard wide/deep depression.
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If bbq near the stadium is a priority, would recommend LC’s on Blue Pkwy.
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I can’t get enough of this so please keep sharing.
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Since you asked, here is an article from the Star in 1912 where they interviewed Donald Ross about his original design of Hillcrest and included a very rough layout. Guessing that a lot of the comments are Ross trying to pump up the design, but still pretty cool to see one of the foremost golf course architects of all time praise Hillcrest so much. I just really hope that any new owner of the course spends the time and money to research all of these original/early articles describing the course and utilizes them (along with whatever old pictures or layouts exist in storage at Hillcrest) in whatever they do. In my mind the worst outcome for any potential remodel/renovation would be someone trying to completely blow up the course/not work to get it back to what Ross intended with some obvious lengthening given how much further the ball travels nowadays.
Interesting tidbits
- Hillcrest was Ross’s first course west of New York meaning that it predates courses like Oakland Hills, Seminole, East Lake, French Lick, and Inverness.
- Ross said with Hillcrest “Kansas City will have the world’s finest golf course.” As I said above this is probably just “puffery” but again pretty cool to have something showing that Ross thought Hillcrest would be one of the best courses in the world.
- Ross’s design really attempted to play off the natural conditions of the Hillcrest site and was supposed to be modeled more after the links courses in Scotland.
- No two holes on the course were supposed to be alike. I think this design idea has been lost during the remodels to the course (especially the back nine where 12, 15, 16, 17 sometimes seem to blur together as hit driver over hill, hit wedge or short iron onto green and the loss of some of the bunkers and natural land forms (e.g., the ravines) that Ross utilized.
- Due to the age of the course par was significantly less important than it is today, which is why it looks like 1 was originally supposed to be 290 yards (fuck me).
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Might be puffery but fuck if that doesn’t get me fired up. I’m definitely a novice when it comes to golf course architecture but something about Hillcrest always spoke to me. Thank you for your service.
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I am in the exact same boat as you. I got really into golf course architecture after listening to the Fried Egg where Andy Johnson talked about Swope. I think Hillcrest can capture people because its the only Donald Ross we have in the area and the property itself is just so fucking interesting. If Hillcrest was on 82nd and Metcalf instead of 82nd and Hillcrest Road, I think it would be at least the same level course/club as Milburn.
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This might be the best morning shitter read I’ve ever had.
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