“With nothing but my notebook to protect me, I bunkered down and prepared for an onslaught of urethane missiles headed my way.”
This sentence made me laugh for far too long @KVV. Always excited to read your stuff.
I need an artist’s rendition of what this may have looked like in the Pro Shop. Right next to the Tanimal t-shirt.
Who would have thunked that in the year of our Lord 2023 that #17 at TPC Scottsdale would overtake #10 at Riviera for better short par 4?
Great stuff as always, @Forty
I think the only thing that stinks about #10 is the pace of play issue that @KVV mentions. I thought it seemed a little weird on tv but hadn’t really thought that much about it until his article spells it out. It’s completely absurd they way they’re doing it, having guys mark balls and wave the next group to tee off.
Why wouldn’t they just play it like they do a par 3 and let the group in front finish out before teeing off? Especially since it’s #10 and guys are probably hitting the bathroom, etc at the turn.
I think Riv has been a great venue, both for the players and for TV.
I wish there were more courses like it and fewer like Sawgrass.
It’s under 7200 yards and usually has a diverse leaderboard. Your point is a good one but the other TPCs and Memorials of the world are the true enemy.
Pushing back on Rory, yes you can. It’s just a little more unpredictable, especially if you don’t get the ball rolling correctly. Works best with a putter or wood/hybrid.
This whole post is going the wrong direction in my opinion. The problem is that the layup is no longer an option for the pros and the pitch shots from around the green are extremely boring and repetitive.
I think softening the green will give players the option to lay up which should make the numbers shift back towards laying up since the other option is intentionally being stuck behind a tree in the rough. Yes you could change the equipment but 1. That wont happen and 2. I think Tiger is forgetting the greens weren’t this fast back then either.
Make the greenside bunkers and green surface the primary question, not the cluster of bushes and trees.
Some people have been beating this drum for awhile 
Yeah, I think the “having the group behind hit up stinks” argument falls flat when solely discussing the hole architecturally. It only happens in the PGA Tour tournament (never in everyday play) and is done at the direction of the tour itself. So, maybe the PGA Tour stinks here. It isn’t a design flaw. The hole doesn’t architecturally demand waving the group up. It’s mainly a result of split tee tee times and making sure they get groups off on time that are starting on 10.
I wonder if the green was simply softened tournament week (PGA Tour decision) we’d see a greater variety of tee shots because the wedge shot wouldn’t be the most difficult shot on the hole.
Over a 6 year sample size players laying up had a 4.13 scoring average, while people going for it had a 3.88, a quarter shot difference. I think if they can bring that difference down, it would make the hole better strategically. It would also be fun to watch the world’s best players dial in wedges to that shallow green.
I think you would.
As for the stats you post above, this is more evidence of what equipment has done to holes like 10. I’m guessing that gap between laying up and going for it shrinks as you go back (especially pre-21st century). Every elite-level player can drive the green now. My broken down, multiple herniated disc, old ass can drive the green thanks to Mr Callaway and Mr Acushnet. Elite pros can hit little cut 3-woods. It used to take a herculean drive fraught with way more challenge. Tiger laid that out in his quote from @KVV 's piece.
I love Sawgrass, my favorite Dye course to play 
Of Dye courses, Sawgrass isnt the best.
I would rate higher:
Kiawah (Ocean Course)
Teeth of the Dog (Casa de Campo)
Dye Fore (Casa de Campo)
PGA West (Stadium)
My favorite Pete Dye course, by far, is The Pete Dye Resort Course at the Westin Rancho Mirage.
Coincidentally, that’s the only Pete Dye course I’ve played.
Sawgrass is a sick tournament course and TV course. Its top tier for me.
I would never ever want to pay to play it and have my nuts kicked in. But it challenges the best and usually has a sick leaderboard and winner.
I was comparing Dye courses that I have played. TV greatness a totally different ballgame.
The 10th stinks because there’s zero entertainment value from any of the shots. I don’t care if everyone “goes for it” or if more players lay up. There has to be potential for excitement for it to be an entertaining hole. The best shots at the 10th are bailouts away from hole, which stinks.
It is an incredibly fun course to play.
