I’ll also bite the bait…played our year end “Tournament of Champions” this past weekend where it is a stableford format (net eagle=6, net bird=4, net par=2, etc. etc). I play off of a plus one and shot a 30 on my back 9 (love making 2 net 3 on a par 3) and lost substantial ground to the leader - high handicappers moreso than low not can take it deep in a net game
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Also, answer me this then. When we are setting up our pro am teams, why are we not trying to bring 4 scratches with us to the tourney? Why are we looking to round out the team with a couple of highs for their strokes?
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Or more likely, one or more mid to high handicap is sandbagging/lying about their handicap. That’s the real issue with net stroke play. Just takes a couple sandbaggers to make the event a joke.
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Okay fair point there. True story
Everyone remembers the anecdotal experience of not winning. And in a “large field” that’s not flighted, the low handicapper will, by definition, be better than most of the golfers in the field. So the odds of “someone in the field with a higher cap” beating that low cap are of course much higher. Because there are more of them.
By that exact same premise, I promise you that high cappers, for whom most of the field is better than them, perceive that the better golfers “usually win” because most of the field is better than them.
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100%
For me, I went from an 18-20 down to single digits pretty rapidly. So for a couple of summers I was an absolute menace on the local net scene haha. As with anything there’s different types of highs. If your an 18 who’s a sicko and obsessed with getting better, you’re gonna clip off some net events. If your an 18 who couldn’t care less and just wants to drink and get stoned with the boys then yea you’re gonna fire a 98 every time and not be a factor.
Any ways Kingsley looked phenomenal and I am efforting Michigan in 2022
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Seemed like an opportunity to try out this new gif:
I too hate giving people the same number of strokes in match play as they’d get in a stroke play game, but I guess I’ve got to trust the math and realize I still have the advantage and just #playbetter.
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First of all congrats, in all seriousness. That’s really hard to do as an adult who doesn’t grow up playing. But using this premise of the 18 golf sicko (which is basically me), here’s a fun sample exercise we could actually conduct here. I would bet that the indices of Refugees are more accurate and honest than most of the golfing population that carries a handicap, though it probably also skews to a much lower average index than the golfing population with a handicap. What if @Double_Bogey_Dave were to provide us with the data of all of our historical event winners at all of our various net events - regional match plays, refuge events, NLU-organized events. Would be interesting to see the distribution of indexes for the winners.
I can remember a few high cappers winning off the top of my head, and I remember them because it seemed notable in light of the usual winners tending to be single digit caps, if not near scratch. But again, that’s my skewed perspective as a high cap.
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Interesting conversation. I am a highcapper that has been improving recently. I played in the CLC match play and won all the matches I was getting strokes and then lost in the knockout when I had to give strokes. All that said, I would not have entered the event if it was gross and not net. How are guys that are mid to high cappers supposed to compete with low cappers if it wasn’t for the system?
I will say this…over my last 20 rounds I have had 3 nets scores in the 60s with 2 of them being below 65. Over that same stretch my cap has gone from 19.8 to 13.5. I went on a heater, my cap changed and now I get less strokes. Isn’t that the way it is supposed to work? If a low capper catches a high capper on a heater they will lose. play them again when the handicap adjusts for that heater and the low capper wins.
It really isn’t much different than bowling leagues. The main difference is in most bowling leagues they set the cap at a certain score. Example, everyone over an average of 190 plays off scratch and anyone under 190 has a handicap vs 190. In golf that would allow plus handicappers to always play off scratch or a tourney could be set up at a 5 cap giving anyone below that an added advantage.
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Again, all I said was that it’s hard.
And I’ll double down, it’s not just giving up 4 a side. When you’re scratch and giving up 7 to a quite capable golfer (on a wide course that doesn’t emphasize driving distance as well), it’s really freaking hard. You gotta go out and make some birdies. Which you’re expected to as a scratch, but people constantly overestimate how good scratch players. I shoot 80 all the time. I’ve gotta play really well and disciplined to have a shot. And there’s still days where you play great and there’s nothing you can do about the higher cap getting you at the right times.
All this to say, constantly being in this spot has definitely made me a better golfer. But there’s just not many scenarios where you can get away with less than your best that give you a good shot at winning.
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4 of last 20 per the GHIN Detective. not exactly all the time. Seems like you play really freaking good almost all the time.
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GHIN exposure Refuge is MY favorite Refuge.
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Right, and as a high capper, I need to go out and make several pars per round, and still may lose or halve my best holes of the round when playing a scratch. And there will be at least 3-4 holes that are just fully gifted to the other golfer because I’m in my pocket. It’s almost as if it’s equally hard, relative to the golfer’s ability. Which is the point. Especially now that indexes update after every round.
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Probably 2 of my 3 rounds in the four ball I played in last week, which don’t get entered. ESC probably prevents some 78’s from becoming 80’s. I shot an 87 and a 70 in back to back days a few weeks ago. I’m capable of playing really good golf, but my average score is nothing to write home about.
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Same team my man, same team. I’m saying some of the guys in this thread have obviously not been in a spot giving up 8 shots. I’m agreeing it’s hard as fuck. Not saying it’s unfair, just tough.
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I don’t think any (ok most) low cappers are upset about the %age of time they win/lose a match. 50,53% whatever. That’s fine. The frustrating thing is that it seems to be more dependent on how the higher cap plays than how the low cap plays. If the high cap plays well, even if you play similarly well, you’ve got no shot.
Similarly, in a tournament, with enough high handicaps in the field/flight, one of them is going to play well, and the low cap rarely has a shot.
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Great debate here but I’m just elated for @djpie
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Relative to their index, that’s every golfer on this board. I too have a 25 shot range in my last 20 rounds. It just starts and stops at a different point.
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match play and giving up strokes can just get demoralizing very quickly, you’re either a few under and tied, or getting net birded to death. I feel for you @Soly, course looked mint at least.