The Supper Club - NLU Wisconsin Roost - 2025 Event Schedule is LIVE Post 345

Gotchu fam.

Working with Herb was fascinating, but we almost ended our relationship. Herb’s love for trees is well-known, but his reaction to a decision I made for the par three 17th hole almost finished the friendship.

The center of the dispute was a group of cottonwood trees along the bank of the Sheboygan River between where I intended to place the tee and the green. For months Herb and I battled back and forth, since Herb wanted to place the tee back in a clearing that would have saved the trees but would have required a 100-yard walk from the 16th green to the 17th tee.

I built all of the other holes on the course before asking Herb to make up his mind about the tee location. Trees-best-friend finally told me he would meet me on 17 at high noon and a decision would be made so we could complete the golf course.

Noon came and went, and so did another proposed meeting Herb set up for five o’clock. He finally dragged himself out of one of those long corporate meetings by 7:30 p.m. and madly drove his Jaguar toward the 17th hole.

“When I walked over the hill,” Herb remembered, “I saw a silver bellow of smoke tarnishing the evening sunset. The closer I got the more smoke I saw, but there was no one around.”

There was no one around because my construction crew and I had quickly left the premises. Except for a security guard, Herb was all by himself. “When I got a bit closer I saw the blazing fire, but there was no danger because while I saw that the logs and brush were burning brightly, huge piles of earth surrounded the inferno,” Herb recalls. “I asked the security guard where Pete Dye was, and if he knew he didn’t tell me.”

A clerk at the American Club informed Herb that I was gone, bag and baggage. I knew he would be steaming since I cut down those trees and burned them, but it was three hours before he could blast me on the telephone.

I tried to explain what I had done, and how I had carved out a green and so forth, but he would no listen. He demanded that I return to Kohler for an “eye-to-eye” as he called it, and I did two days later. Herb had a chance to vent his anger at me, and friendship was restored.

Pete Dye was a certified psychopath.

Edit - I understand this original 17th hole is the current 17th n the River. Which means Kohler must have wanted to the tee back up in the clearing between where 16 green and the corridor for 18 is? Yeesh, I get why Pete was fighting him on this.

Anyway, in the same chapter he talks about a few specific holes, including Cathedral Spires, which he misidentifies as the 10th but I believe is actually the 9th on the River (but is a hole along the river with trees very much in play), the 16th on the River, and 15 on the Meadow Valley. No discussion of River 13.

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His what now???

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I’ve explained I’m not a smart man, right?

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These are the two 17s on property, first one is 17 Original Course.

The next one is 17 River and also 17 of the Championship routing used in the US Women’s Opens.

Could be referring to either, personally my money would be on the first photo, none of them makes sense of where Herb would want to put the tee

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I’ll especially echo this part!

There aren’t a ton of folks in N.E. Wisconsin (yet) but I’m always up for trying to spread the word and get more folks involved.

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I was confused at first as well. The tour I found suggested that was the 17th for the original course but I guess the nines may have been switched several times even in the brief time that core course existed, so who knows what Dye (or his editor) considered 17 to be.

But based on him talking about the trees at issue being on the bank of the Sheboygan River, he must be referring what is now 17 River.

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Thanks @matthew823 you going to invite the new guys out for a round too? Or skip past the welcome?

Yeah it’s been mixed around so who knows, Blackwolf Run is a really special place there are just a few clunker holes. Also the first course Herb had built so likely some early growing pains

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Anyone from The Supper Club is welcome to join me in Phoenix, where I unfortunately still make my home. Hoping to play some golf in your fine state later this year, but the plans are decidedly not firm enough to be putting our requests for company yet. Hopefully May?

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Also, from the 90s Blackwolf Run scorecard. Stats of the course were as follows:

Black tees: 6991 / 74.9 / 151
Blue tees: 6607 / 73.2 / 146
White tees: 6110 / 70.9 / 137
Red tees: 5115 / 70.7 / 128

The current card of the course is as follows:

Black: 7404 / 76.2 / 151
Blue: 6865 / 73.7 / 144
Green: 6465 / 72.1 / 139
White: 6095 / 70.3 / 132
Red: 5120 / 65.7 / 123

In 1993-94 it was ranked No. 31 of, “America’s 100 Greatest Golf Courses” per Golf Digest, per the scorecard. Not public. In America overall. That also gives some context to the age of the scorecard, probably from around 94 or 95.

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I guess it hasn’t fallen as far as I would have guess in 30 years. Still #117 in America per Golf Digest, and was #95 as recently as their last list.

#18 public, per GD.

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And by unanimous decision, #13 River Course takes it.

#1 The Oaks par 4 - 353 yds
#2 Westridge GC par 5 - 476 yds
#3 Kenosha CC par 3 - 130 yds
#4 The Bull par 5 - 493 yds
#5 Whistling Straits par 5 - 543 yds
#6 The Bull par 3 - 173 yds
#7 Ironwood Callow par 5 - 496 yds
#8 Twin Lakes CC par 5 - 500 yds
#9 The Oaks par 5 - 492 yds
Par 40 - 3656 yds

#10 Blackwolf Run Meadow Valleys par 4 - 330 yds
#11 The Bull par 4 - 331 yds
#12 Glen Erin par 4 - 400 yds
#13 Blackwolf Run River par 3 - 205 yds

Nominations for #14?

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Also gonna echo what’s been said before by our Supper Club Steering Committee gui’s above. Our Discord is very active and there are always chances to get together and plan and unplanned outings will pop up from time to time. With the events, including the Ope which is one of the hottest tickets in the Midwest, get your name on the list you’ll never know what happens.

I joined in 2023, way to late to get into the Ope field for that year. But on a whim signed up and said hey I’m a local this sounds like a lot of fun, and a week before the event there was a late drop and I was able to get in. This is a welcoming place full of good people.

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Some follow up on this from the Zuckerman coffee table book on Pete Dye. He has Kohler’s take on the Blackwolf Run tree incident.

"One day Pete said to me, ‘I’ve planted seventeen holes, but there is one that hasn’t even been roughed in. We need to finish this golf course, today.’ I told him I’d try to meet him at noon, and we’d locate the final par-3 on Blackwolf Run, which was our first course. My schedule that day was hectic. Midday came and went. I found him on a hard line and told him Id come down to the site around 5:00 p.m. and he said, "Fine, but we need to make a decision today, and it would be worth your while to help me figure out where we’re going to locate this hole.’

“I finally freed myself just past 6:00 p.m., went down there and saw four large piles of smoldering logs, each perhaps twenty-five feet tall. Then I saw that the nearby grove of seventy-foot-tall American elm trees, some of the last remaining species in Wisconsin, which had been ravaged by Dutch elm disease, was gone. And behind the 16th green, I was shocked to see a brand-new tee box that must have been eighty yards long, and adjacent four-acre lake that appeared twenty feet deep, and above it a roughed-out green exactly where the grove of elms had been.”

While the owner had been lobbying to have the green nestled by a series of river rapids preserving the elms, the architect knew the ensuing 150-yard walk to the 18th tee was untenable for championship play.

“There was nobody around,” recalls Kohler. "I found a security guard who told me that at the 5 o’clock bell there was a crew of nearly twenty men running bulldozers, chopping trees, and hauling logs. Then he told me Pete had left for the airport and cleared out of town.

“I reached him that evening in Indianapolis. I told him we needed t come to a real understanding of how we were going to communicate and build a golf course. And if we couldn’t do so quickly, then someone else was going to finish the job, and that person would be credited for the design. Pete was back within twenty-four hours, we had a long discussion, and it hasn’t been an issue since,” continues Kohler.

Kohler admits that the par-3 17th hole Dye freelanced is wonderful, and despite his own desire to save the trees and have the green hard by the river, it was somewhat impractical. “We would never have hosted the U.S. Women’s Open if I had gotten my way,” he admits.

  • No really, Pete Dye was a complete and total psychopath. But Herb Kohler, kind of admitting he’s Pete’s bitch.

  • As noted I have never (yet!) been there so I’m just basing this on pictures and aerials but I always sort of had the impression that that curve of the river was sort of wetland area or something but apparently that’s a built pond and Kohler actually wanted to green somewhere back in the crook of the river. Presumably a tee somewhere by the 16th green with the hole playing SSE, around 190-200 yards from the back tee. Could have been a cool hole.

  • Yes, you would have then essentially walked back most of the length of 17 to get to 18 tee but that doesn’t seem so bad. This would have been a pleasant walk through a nice grove of trees near the river, right?
    One bit of comedy about that whole drama is they ultimately added a new tee on 18 another 40 yards behind the previous back tee. Probably not used for the women so maybe irrelevant to discussions of whether the USGA would have a problem with it, but I kind of doubt that the walk back would have been a make or break deal anyway. This feels like a lot of drama over this hole which seems like one of the weakest on the composite routing.

Oh, and all this discussion stemmed from talk about #13. I think it shows Dye clearly didn’t worry about getting rid of trees if he felt like they were in his way. He didn’t even give a shit if he had the owner’s blessing. But he left them on 9, 13, and 16 (and 17 on MV) because he wanted them there for strategic value. See above, re: him being a psycho.

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AndHereWeGo.gif.

Woodlands 14. Granted, I suck at golf but it seems like your tee shot either hangs up on the slope on the right, or rolls down to/past the cart path on the left.

Either way, you’re completely blocked out from the green.

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The only answer here is The Oaks. Worst hole on a bad course.

NEXT!

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A lot of swamp it appears

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Yeah this is definitely 17 River Course, current hole is one of my favorites. The final 3 holes of the River are a banger, but I’ll leave that for when we do the best holes in WI next year

Feel free to wander on over to Iowa this year!

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Currie Park 14…fuck that stupid ass tree

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