This is in no way meant to be a post bashing Camargo, it’s their house and they should do only what they want with it
Disclaimer aside, I played the ‘22 Am qualifier and this year’s Mid Am qualifier and this year seemed much more like it was a nuisance to them. Nothing big, but little things. There was no water on the course for the practice round. Last time, we had almost the whole range to warm up, this year we only had about 8 spots on the corner of the range to use, and had to wait until a spot opened up.
Also, @iacas, I believe they always hosted a qualifier for the US Am and now it’s the Mid Am. Just speculation, but maybe just fulfilling an obligation?
A few days have past so I can finally focus on the good instead of how poorly I played. @cussingmussel and I partnered up for the NOGA 4-ball at Portage on Monday and had a great time. Portage slaps. The greens are so tricky without being stupid fast. And it might be the most walkable private course in NEO.
We finished out of the money—Joe A. hit it outstanding, but just couldn’t make any putts. I on the other hand am totally in the wilderness at the moment. Working on some swing improvements and I’m totally playing golf swing instead of golf. We took my score on 3 holes. But I couldn’t have asked for a better partner. I’d highly encourage anyone that wants to get in the cauldron to play in a NOGA net event (or scratch if you have the game). When you’re hitting cups, standing over must make 3 and 4 footers is a rush. The 4-balls are especially fun since you can ham and egg it with a partner. You know I’ll be posting the lineup in January 2025!
Yes, Erik, it is based on exactly what I said. And I gave my disclaimer that they can do what they want, I understand that.
When it’s 96 degrees, you expect water to be on the course. If I go to the local mini, I bring a cooler full of ice and water. Most top shelf will not allow that. So I’m supposed to shove 6 bottles of water in the ball pouch on my golf bag?
Also, in an 84-man field, you should 100% have more than 8 spots open to warm up.
@rvanculin, sorry you’re so upset. I still don’t understand the bit about the “obligation.” I think they likely see it as a way to give back a little to the golf community. If they’re like other clubs, they make a little from the cart fees in the practice round and maybe the range fees, and that’s the extent of it. They’re not “fulfilling an obligation” because they, like the other private clubs who haven’t hosted events for nearly 100 years, could just tell the AGA to pound sand.
IIRC, that course has water fountains every three holes. And the course doesn’t run the qualifier - that’s the AGA’s job, and so the water is not the course’s issue, but the AGA’s. You should email them, and ask them why they didn’t provide water. As I understand it, Camargo closed the course to members for two days, and like many private clubs, the facilities are fully close don Mondays, and you got an email to that effect, no?
I also believe that the range had ten spots, which seems like plenty of spots to me given how everyone went off #1 in threesomes. How many balls do you need to hit before you shoot 81?
When I said “obligation” it was a hypothetical, and, of course, a guess. I meant like maybe that had agreed to do it for so many years and that’s their obligation, not any other sense. I should have clarified that.
Also, the water fountains don’t all work and I think they come from the sewer. Don’t get me wrong, I drank that water because I didn’t want to pass out from dehydration.
Also, I’m not sure it was necessary to go Sherlock Holmes to figure out they had 10 range spots instead of 8. I stand by my argument that a person shouldn’t have to stand around and wait to warmup at what is supposed to be a qualifier for a premier event.
Once again, I’m not saying they had to do anything, I’m just saying what they did was beneath their reputation, which gives the vibe that we are beneath them, which, as I said, may not be wrong. They didn’t have to treat us well, and I don’t think they did. That’s all.
For context, I caddie at a nearly top 100 facility and if a member hosts an event with 15 of his buddies, they’ll let them use the dining room as a driving range and pipe Dom Perignon through the water fountains if they want. On employee play day, they lock the restrooms and don’t put out any water. I’m not going on an “Eat the Rich!” rant, but I understand how they feel about us plebes.
Yeah, they’re not obligated in any sense of the word. I think that diminishes what they do and have done.
The water was the responsibility of the AGA. You got that wrong, and continue to blame the club.
No Sherlock Holmes about it. Sent a few messages. Got some info back.
I had a junior play in the U.S. Am qualifier (he tied for medalist honors, also in OH) with a range that had five spots, and you couldn’t hit a ball over about 180 yards (in Ohio), also at a private club. Double tee start, too. They had three more spots if you wanted to hit into a net 15 yards in front of you. Still less than you got.
The only thing you can put on the club is the # of range spots (and you were 25% short on that), so your comments about how they “treated” you don’t line up, nor do your comments about the “obligation” stuff.
I like the course and the people, and you’re taking a dump on it unjustly.
I’m with @rvanculin here, I would be slightly frustrated/annoyed as well if I had to wait for a spot at the driving range before a high level amateur event simply because they didn’t want to open more of the range. Especially because I like having a routine and allocating a set amount of time for each portion of my warmup working backwards from my tee time. So having to wait 10 minutes or whatever is annoying.
I don’t expect to be treated like a PGA Tour player or something but IMO part of the reason for playing a high level amateur event is for the elevated feeling that the event should provide and having to wait for an open range spot due to decisions the course made cheapens that feeling some and makes it feel like a local Am Tour event, not a USGA Qualifier.
In your US Am qualifier example with the 180yd max and the hitting into nets it sounds like that situation was more of a course rule/ space limitation. If it was a course rule to not hit anything that goes 200+yds, ok I can deal with that, it is what it is.
But in the other situation it sounded like there was room they just didn’t make it available, right?
Erik, I know I could keep this back-and-forth going in perpetuity because you are incapable of not taking the last word, but this will end it for me.
Saying someone else had it worse, doesn’t mean it was good for someone else, only better.
I never intended to take a dump on Camargo, just to affirm that there was a strong feeling among the players that we were not welcome there. Sorry, Brandel, but no analytics or Sherlock-sleuthing can disprove how players felt.
Also, it is out of the way to send messages to prove me wrong over a couple of range spots. The difference, it could be mentioned, seems to also be in that the other course had limited space for players to warm up, whereas Camargo had probably a few acres of teeing area. (I’m sure with Google Earth and your investigative skills, you’ll give us the square footage.)
I said all that to say that the feeling was that they may not continue to host the qualifier, and that was voiced among multiple players and staff members.
Other than knowing your nature, I can’t be sure why you’re so interested in arguing about a qualifier you aren’t even eligible to play, haha.
PS - to your continued argument that the water is USGA or GCGA responsibility, I emailed them and gave them my feedback, very politely.
I never said it wouldn’t be annoying, but he didn’t come in saying he was mildly annoyed at the course for only that. They thought ten spots for threesomes all going off #1 was sufficient. Maybe they got it wrong. Maybe guys took a long time to warm up. It’s both not unique, and IMO not enough of a reason to draw the odd conclusions about the club.
Nice tactic.
Half of your stated reasons were flat out wrong, and the other one issue was misrepresented by 25%, and from that, you concluded that they felt an “obligation.”
I pushed back on that, and think their nearly 100 year history of hosting amateur qualifiers when they have no need at all to do so is good evidence to support that.
I told you why: “you’re taking a dump on it unjustly.”
It’s annoying to have “only” ten range spots. Okay.
I’ll at least jump in to share some insight on this. I was one of the Boatwright interns with the GCGA in '22.
I don’t know much about how other AGAs handle practice rounds, but the GCGA has never done anything aside from coordinating the date/time. They’ve never provided water. (I’m not saying this to justify anything; I’d love for there to be water provided at practice rounds, but there’s currently no precedent for it.)
As far as the future of Camargo hosting, I know that there’s somewhat of a tenuous relationship between them and the GCGA. I’ve expounded upon this here before, but the hole-location snafu at the US Am. qualifier in '22 got some of their members quite upset. My impression is that there is a desire to maintain that legacy of hosting, but maybe not joyfully.
The guy who was the GCGA competitions director at the time (no longer works for them) set the hole location on 17 (reachable par-5 with a Road template green) just over the Road bunker in the back-left corner, so close to the edge that it was almost impossible to get a ball to stop at the hole. Several players putted off the green into the bunker (some multiple times), including multiple Camargo members. I distinctly remember one guy beet-red, berating the GCGA staff over it. We had to move the hole back a few feet for the second round, and a week or two later there was some kind of closed-door meeting between our executive director, competitions director, and a few representatives from the club.
The 17th hole at Camargo, the Road Hole, has a pretty severe green like a lot of Raynor greens. Slopes pretty severally from back to front. Right to left.
The set up committee for the 2022 US Am qualifier decided it would be a good idea to put the pin in a very precarious position on the back left of the green just above the bunkers that front the green. It was such a horrible pin placement that people were putting off the green extremely easily and into that bunker in the front. It fucked with pace of play and the pin was moved between rounds which isn’t supposed to happen.
I snagged a photo of where the pin was when I caddied that day (shoutout @GGates18) because I couldn’t believe it.
