Refuge Information

We’ve undergone changes as of January 1, 2021. We’ve created new Rules and Standards HERE. Additionally, I encourage everybody (newbie and veteran alike) to please take a minute and read below to learn about what’s new and different around here.

Nest Members

If you’ve been a Nest member previously and spent any time here everything will look, feel and operate as it did before. You have full, unlimited access to see and post across the Refuge. Additionally, you can create threads anywhere in the Refuge save for two spots–the ‘Public Feedback’ and ‘Portico’ sub-categories within the ‘Community Center’. Other than that, have at it!

Non-Nest Members

Welcome to the Refuge! We’re glad you’re here and hope you will take a look around and familiarize yourself with things. Please feel free to visit and participate in both the ‘Events’ and ‘Community Center’ categories, including the ‘Public Feedback’ and ‘Portico’ sub-categories. Please know our Events are open to everybody, so feel free to #getinvolved as you’re able!

As part of your familiarization process with the Refuge, we invite each non-Nest member to use 100 posts anywhere in the ‘Community Center’ and ‘Events’ categories (including sub-categories). So whether it’s signing your state or city’s roll call, signing up to participate in an event, or getting involved in one of the community-oriented threads, we hope you’ll take a look around and see if joining the Nest is right for you! Please note that during this ‘trial’ period the rate at which you’re able to post is intentionally cut down to about once per hour.

The threads you see within the ‘Portico’ category represent the best of the best here on the Refuge. We hope they provide a glimpse into the type of community that exists here. Our intention is to shuffle in a few new threads every couple months to keep this sneak peek of the Refuge fresh.

Other than that, make yourself at home and thanks for being here. We hope to get to know you and eventually see you out at a course somewhere!

Sincerely,

NLU
@Randy @MerchCzar @Tron @djpie @Soly

PS. For insight into why we are making this change, please read the following, originally posted to the Refuge in November 2020:

Guise,

Over the past year we have had several internal discussions about what we want the Nest, and Refuge, to be. What is the point of each? What purpose does it serve? To this end, we have always sought the Nest to be a living, breathing community of avid golfers, connected both online and in real life, through the game of golf. The Refuge, necessarily, serves as an online meeting place for this community to socialize and interact in between opportunities to get together in real life.

For some people, these real-life connections happen more frequently than for others, but our hope has always been that the connections made online will eventually carry over into real life. Getting to meet and make friends all over the world through the game of golf has been the highlight of this weird, wonderful No Laying Up experience for us, and it is our sincere hope that we can help facilitate such opportunity and occasion for others.

Over the course of the last year or so, several things have occurred with regard to the Refuge that have made us rethink the status quo, and ultimately question whether it is positioned to serve our stated goals above. Make no mistake, 2020 has been a shitty, trying year for just about everybody. That has ramifications everywhere, including here. Even so, we believe the Refuge has drifted too far from what we want it to be, with consequences that have proven wide-ranging. As a result, effective January 1st, 2021, the Refuge will be accessible to Nest members only, except for a couple select threads.

I will try my best to explain our reasoning below, and I am also sharing a link at the bottom of this post for the November 2020 Nest podcast in which we discuss this decision more in-depth.

If your first reaction is to be mad, pissed off, apoplectic, or put-off, believe me, we understand. We all had similar reactions at some point in this decision-making process. However, I hope you’ll continue reading and/or listening to understand where we are coming from and why this change is necessary. And if you’re still pissed off after that, we certainly don’t begrudge you your feelings. If you want to leave that is certainly your right. We wish you nothing but the best and thank you sincerely for all of your interest, time and dedication to this place.

Let’s tackle the most salient questions stemming from this decision…

’Paywall’? What will it cost?

We are folding the Refuge into Nest memberships. The price of Nest memberships is not changing, so for $90 a year, members will receive:

** Annual member gift*
** Monthly Nest Podcast*
** 15% off in the NLU pro shop*
** Full access to The Refuge message board*
** Access to the Member Directory*
** Early access to sign up for NLU events*
** Eligibility to play in the NIT*

A couple of things to note: monthly Nest subscriptions will be going away. They will all be annual memberships. If you have recently signed up or renewed your membership and are unhappy with this decision and want your money back, no problem, email Nest@NoLayingUp.com and we will process a refund straight away. We’re not trying to hoodwink, pull one over, or make a play for anybody’s cash. If the Nest is for you, great. If it’s not, no worries.

I love Refuge Events, what does this mean for them?

We hope nothing! Decentralized, organic Refuge meet-ups were one of the brightest spots of 2020 for us. We hope, and encourage, people to feel empowered to keep planning and putting on these events. We are going to work to formalize the process for NIT qualification spots this year, but other than that, we hope events continue on as before.

In fact, the events category is going to be one of the few categories in front of the paywall. That way non-Nest members can see upcoming events and have the ability to register and attend. Just as this year, if the event ties into the NIT and a non-Nest member earns an NIT spot, they will need to become a Nest member to attend the NIT.

Event threads will be in front of the ‘paywall’. What else?

Not much. Probably a Welcome thread in the vein of a general roll-call thread that currently exists. All other categories and threads will be behind the paywall.

What about NLU-organized events?

Nest members will have first crack to sign up for these, just as in this past year. If events do not fill up with Nest members, we will happily open it up to the wider, non-Nest public. Just like Refuge events, if NIT qualification spots are earned, that person must be a Nest member to attend the NIT.

Why are you doing this?

That’s a valid question. We feel like the Refuge conversation has become less and less productive over the last 6 months, for several reasons. We dive into those reasons in the podcast. Suffice it to say here, though, the ability for anybody, anywhere to post whatever they want, combined with the ability of anybody, anywhere to read said posts, puts us in an awkward spot where our name can be linked to whatever is said, no matter the context. This has caused uncomfortable experiences to-date, and we only see it continuing if left unchecked.

We want to stress that people will be free (and encouraged) to speak their mind on the Refuge behind the paywall, just as always. There will be disagreements, differences of opinion, and competitive banter. The difference will be if you’re not invested in the community, you won’t be able to read what’s being said. We want people posting who are invested in the Nest and Refuge.

Will the Refuge be moderated? Will there be elections?

The Refuge will continue to be moderated in a similar vein as to what it is now. The current Mods have been a godsend, helping the sheer functionality of the Board (approving new threads, new users, deleting duplicate threads, and generally being an extra set of eyes for us).

We will not have elections anytime in the foreseeable future. The prior elections were an attempt by us to make the Board both more tenable and a better experience for the vast majority. Double Bogey Dave has done a thankless, bang-up job and we can’t thank him and the Mods enough for their help. We plan to continue seeking their help in 2021, this time in a non-presidential capacity.

Ultimately, too, dealing with shitty behavior will fall on the five of us. We will give people a few chances to not act flagrantly detrimental to the Board, but we will also reserve the right to boot people at any point as we see fit. And trust us, we will be happy to refund said people right away.

I can assure you we are not after a chorus of people that will slurp us or our work. In fact, while we appreciate praise, we generally find constructive criticism to be most useful. We want, perhaps naively, this community to act as if we all know each other in real life. To not lose sight of the fact there are real people on both ends of the keyboard. We want people who will at a minimum leave the Board as they found it, and ideally, who will work to make the community more vibrant and fun for all. We want to work and support these people, and plan to do so.

So you guys are just creating a private club?

Yes and no. We are hoping to create a club in the Scottish golf club spirit. One that is open to anybody who is willing to invest a bit of money and energy. We are not trying to create a country club, where it’s exclusionary or elitist.

Tl,dr?

If you are a Nest Member, nothing will change for you. We don’t think the conversation will change too drastically, but we can’t know for sure. If you’re not a Nest member, you will need to get a membership to keep posting as is on the Refuge.

We will not be holding an election for a Nest president. Instead, we will be working with whoever we deem a valuable partner to manage and improve the Nest and message board experience.

We encourage Refuge-organized events! We ask organizers to communicate plans and relevant details with us, and we will work with organizers to attach NIT spots as able. Non-Nest members can find, sign-up and attend events on the Refuge.

You said there would be a podcast link?

Yes. HERE IT IS . (Pertinent discussion begins at about the 18:00 mark).

In conclusion, We know this decision will make some unhappy. We apologize and hope you can at least see things from our shoes. If this is a severing of ties, again, thank you for all your time and support, and we wish you nothing but the best. We sincerely hope and believe that this decision will improve the Refuge experience for a great many people though. And if not, we certainly reserve the right to reassess and readjust going forward.

Sincerely,

No Laying Up

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Minor Update: Feb 8, 2021

We’ve made the following adjustment to the Refuge I want to share for everybody’s edification:

We’ve added an ‘extended stay’ classification (for lack of a better term) for non-Nest users who wish to remain active past their 100 posts in the public-facing community threads but, for specific reasons, are not Nest members at the moment. The extended stay classification essentially removes the posting limits for non-Nest members while keeping access limits (ie. public-facing only) in place.

We don’t envision this as a widespread thing, but having said that, we’re happy to facilitate for folks where it makes sense. We had two Nest members reach out privately last week which spurred this adjustment. I’d invite the same of anybody else who wants to discuss a specific circumstance–please feel free to direct it to myself, @MerchCzar, or any moderator. Thanks!

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