Are the batteries and their production bad? Yes
Are electic cars and their manufacturing worse overall for the environment than gas cars?
Absolutely not. Not even close. The research has been done - even if you’re just considering the fuel source - Oil and gas industry hurts the environment and people more.
(We should fix both things imo. Ideally we also stop using cars, period)
Except for that whole thing of most people are using gas / coal to power their cars when parked at home
Most states committing to the EV transition are working to change that.
Power plants are significantly more efficient at generating energy than internal combustion engines. EVs still win even if all their power is generated by coal plants.
Replace the coal plants with nuclear and combined cycle and they win by a lot
The US roughly is 60% fossil fuels (more natural gas than coal) and 40% nuclear/renewables. An ICE is 100% fossil fuel. Just with that, you’re going to be doing better with an electric vehicle and that’s before getting into the efficiency of power plants v. small engines.
Now we’re cooking.
There’s also my biggest issue with the electric car thing
Just some light modern day slavery (yes I know I’m typing this on an iPhone so I’m a hyprocrite)
Also, the reason states are pushing for more solar power/utility scale battery storage to support the grid is because technological advances have made it cheaper than natural gas and WAY cheaper than coal.
But there is a ton of opposition to these developments from “grassroot organizations” that refuse to release their funding. You can make an educated guess at what types on industries would be interested in slowing down renewable development.
Thankfully none of the petrol states also run on modern day slavery
Of course they do
But trading one for the other is a lateral move. A lateral move that’s incredibly inconvenient for drivers of the car.
And what happens at scale? We’re trading one limited natural resource for another. Unintended consequences are just that typically, but the best outcome for now it’s probably a balance of gas and electric unless the tech makes huge headways on either side.
Hey I was finally getting to listen to this today and I got to the part about ski lifts, I wanted to know where @Tron got the info about deregulation of ski lift tickets, I’m intrigued at that as an avid National Park/National Forrest goer (and my wife’s family all work for the US Forestry Service going back like 3 generations) and wanna be avid skier (more snowboarder) but dismayed by the prices. Would love to read up on that and so far some google searches haven’t yielded much info on that front.
Tron mentioned it was during the Carter admin and I was hoping to read more on it since JC is a very interesting person and while his admin rubs both sides opposite ways a lot of shit happened during his time in office.
auto manufacturers in the US and Europe (not sure on China, but I would say less likely for them) all trace source cobalt through their supply chains to help make sure it’s responsibly sourced and that there is no child labor, etc. Tesla (despite everyone’s opinions of Elon Musk) have been doing that since at least ~2018/2019 or so for their utility-scale Megapack batteries as well
again, I am sure there are some battery/auto manufacturers in other countries that are bad actors here, but I know everyone from Tesla to Volvo track this very closely
i dont have an EV, but I always find the EV vs gas debate kinda humorous in the ‘let perfect be the enemy of good’ category. you cannot use/create energy without there being some sort of biproduct, either during the production of your battery or throughout the useful life of your car’s internal combustion engine. i feel like the anti-EV people get all upset as if the cars are supposed to run on fairy dust or something. go buy a horse if you feel that strongly since god knows what happens when you manufacture a bike frame, even!
Yes - which is why I believe the painful truth is we must reduce how much we use of both of them, and quickly. Global population is not getting any smaller.
Bingo. The only way forward. Any governments listening - fund fusion energy research plz.
Mea Culpa coming for @Tron …not Ovechkin
I have to call out @Randy for his flight attendant encounter. That man or woman should get a huge raise. It’s so easy to forget you’re flying around in a metal tube at 500mph. It’s not hard to listen to a 3 min safety video, even if it’s your millionth time. Not saying I do every single time, but it’s worth considering how important some of that stuff is an actual emergency egress situation. Huge shoutout to the kiwi flight attendant who actually cares about safety.
Sure all well and good now. What happens if we mandate everyone has an electric car?
don’t see that happening anytime soon - dont see the point in considering such a hypothetical scenario right now either as other technologies might become more economical in 2030 and onwards as well. technological growth is exponential, and we will likely see more change in energy tech in the next 20 years than we’ve seen in the last 100
and even if there were some sort of mandate for everyone to have an electric car, i would think that would draw even more scrutiny and thus more required best practices across the EV supply chain, etc. But again, I just don’t see that requirement happening any time soon (at least in the US)
Hey i hope so, just generally skeptical of most big corporations!
agreed there - if there is any certainty of the future, it’s continued skepticism of big corporations…
Won’t someone think of the drivers!