2 chapters into There, There. Anyone on the fence about diving in on this one I highly recommend it.
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Come from Away is on Apple TV!
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My brother did the sound for it. I know I’ve said this a lot but I’m super proud of the kid (who also won an Emmy tonight for The Bee Gees documentary!)
Looking forward to watching this one.
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Finished There There this weekend. Excited to chat about it with everyone. It’s a pretty quick read so still plenty of time to finish it before the 22nd 
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Looking forward to the meeting this week! What an incredible book…
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I’ll dig up some discussion questions today or tomorrow. @mcdonart22 are you able to add zoom or should I bug @JScore and @MrVinegar206
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I’ll send the link out early this evening. Can’t wait to discuss this one!
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Ryan McDonald is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: Refuge Book Club
Time: Sep 22, 2021 09:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
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Meeting ID: 954 4917 1739
Password: 345325
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Some discussion questions
Summary
Questions and Topics for Discussion
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The prologue of There There provides a historical overview of how Native populations were systematically stripped of their identity, their rights, their land, and, in some cases, their very existence by colonialist forces in America. How did reading this section make you feel? How does the prologue set the tone for the reader? Discuss the use of the Indian head as iconography. How does this relate to the erasure of Native identity in American culture?
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Discuss the development of the “Urban Indian” identity and ownership of that label. How does it relate to the push for assimilation by the United States government? How do the characters in There There navigate this modern form of identity alongside their ancestral roots?
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Consider the following statement from page 9: “We stayed because the city sounds like a war, and you can’t leave a war once you’ve been, you can only keep it at bay.” In what ways does the historical precedent for violent removal of Native populations filter into the modern era? How does violence—both internal and external—appear throughout the narrative?
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On page 7, Orange states: “We’ve been defined by everyone else and continue to be slandered despite easy-to-look-up-on-the-internet facts about the realities of our histories and current state as a people.” Discuss this statement in relation to how Native populations have been defined in popular culture. How do the characters in There There resist the simplification and flattening of their cultural identity? Relate the idea of preserving cultural identity to Dene Oxendene’s storytelling mission.
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Tony Loneman’s perspective both opens and closes There There. Why do you think Orange made this choice for the narrative? What does Loneman’s perspective reveal about the “Urban Indian” identity? About the landscape of Oakland?
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When readers are first introduced to Dene Oxendene, we learn of his impulse to tag various spots around the city. How did you interpret this act? How does graffiti culture work to recontextualize public spaces?
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Discuss the interaction between Opal Viola Victoria Bear Shield and Two Shoes that occurs on pages 50–52. How does Opal view Two Shoes’s “Indianness”? What is the import of the Teddy Roosevelt anecdote that he shares with her? How does this relate to the overall theme of narrative and authenticity that occurs throughout There There?
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Describe the resettlement efforts at Alcatraz. What are the goals for inhabiting this land? What vision does Opal and Jacquie’s mother have for her family in moving to Alcatraz?
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On page 58, Opal’s mother tells her that she needs to honor her people “by living right, by telling our stories. [That] the world was made of stories, nothing else, and stories about stories.” How does this emphasis on storytelling function throughout There There? Consider the relationship between storytelling and power. How does storytelling allow for diverse narratives to emerge? What is the relationship between storytelling and historical memory?
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On page 77, Edwin Black asserts, “The problem with Indigenous art in general is that it’s stuck in the past.” How does the tension between modernity and tradition emerge throughout the narrative? Which characters seek to find a balance between honoring the past and looking toward the future? When is the attempt to do so successful?
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Discuss the generational attitudes toward spirituality in the Native community in There There. Which characters embrace their elders’ spiritual practices? Who doubts the efficacy of those efforts? How did you interpret the incident of Orvil and the spider legs?
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How is the city of Oakland characterized in the novel? How does the city’s gentrification affect the novel’s characters? Their attitudes toward home and stability?
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How is femininity depicted in There There? What roles do the female characters assume in their community? Within their families?
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Discuss Orvil’s choice to participate in the powwow. What attracts him to the event? Why does Opal initially reject his interest in “Indianness”? How do his brothers react to it?
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Discuss the Interlude that occurs on pages 134–41. What is the import of this section? How does it provide key contextual information for the Big Oakland PowWow that occurs at the end of the novel? What is the significance of this event and others like it for the Native community?
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Examine the structure of There There. Why do you think Orange chose to present his narrative using different voices and different perspectives? How do the interlude and the prologue help to bolster the themes of the narrative? What was the most surprising element of the novel to you? What was its moment of greatest impact?
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Hey folks - I have been planning to attend since I read this book last year but I was realizing I didn’t remember much (I tell everyone who seems to think I read incredibly fast that the biggest downside is whatever I read doesn’t stay in my brain for long enough) … I just read the questions @Sarah posted and many of them don’t even ring a bell for me. I remember the PowWow, how we learn about the connections between the characters and a few obvious big moments but not much else.
I may stop by if I can, but in a complete turn from normal, I may not be talking very much as I don’t have much to say.
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Sounds good! Even if you just want to dive in an brag about Bandon 
Also, if anyone wants to bring suggestions for next read, feel free to. There were some interesting sounding ones floated last discussion I know…
Bumping thread in case folks have forgotten- looking forward to chatting shortly
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Dealing with an crappy Covid close contact situation here and not going to be able to make it tonight. Looking forward to hearing what is next up!
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Thanks for another great meeting! My suggestion for the next book is The Makioka Sisters by Jun’ichirō Tanizaki. I heard about this one on the New York Times Book Review Podcast, it was published in serial form in Japan from 1943 to 1948. See below for a short summary.
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Always an awesome experience chatting books with all of you. Especially grateful to read a Native American voice from a setting outside of rural Dakotas / Midwest.
Definitely find myself getting a little worked up about some of the injustices. It’s nationwide from the onset obviously, but an in-your-face everyday reminder here in South Dakota — and so little is being done. I honestly couldn’t be prouder of the work my wife does on the educational front in a small attempt to make a difference.
I’d also be a little shortsighted not to wish you all an early Happy Native American Day. It’s so token pathetic at first glance, but at least we planted it right on the previous Federal holiday; and very few states have followed along.
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In case anyone is worried that we’re getting too intellectual and not going with enough crowd pleasers, I think we can stifle those concerns by picking a 500 page foreign language novel taken from the New York Times podcast
This is a book I haven’t heard of before and very excited to dive in and discuss!
@OffTheDole could you please update the title to include “The Makioka Sisters by Jun’ichirō Tanizaki”
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I’ll share just one link for emphasis on how close to home the Native American discussion is…. Literally 15 miles for me … at this little 9 hole golf gem.
It’s actually excellent smaller town journalism from not that long ago. The cemetery was utilized less than 100 years ago. Too recent.
Wonderful small town nine but so hard to reconcile the story and location of the cemetery on the dogleg turn.
The read isn’t overly political and worth the time of you have it.
Check out this article from Argus Leader:
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On a more celebratory positive note from my slant as “Pulitzer Nerd”.
Doing a writer’s discussion-round table at our SD Book Festival with this 1969 winner in a couple of weeks. He’s the first Native American winner (at least for fiction). Some very strong Native American stories in the very early days, but not sure how accurate the voice was. Will revisit a few and see what I can suggest several selections and various genres from now.
Perhaps Native American Day ‘22 or ‘23……long live the Refuge Book Club.
Will toss out a few must reads at your convenience in a day or two.
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Oh hell. Gonna hit that rare 3rd post limit (for me) and dial in the recommends by having Louise Ehrlich handle the lifting.
Visit her bookstore and find 3-4 titles and you won’t go wrong. Featured fiction title is “There There” by Tommy Orange. Can recommend.
Do make time for her 2021 Pulitzer effort “The Night Watchman”. Very informative historical fiction effort.
Back into my introverted shell for Ryder Cup weekend!
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