With the dust having settled, these gents present a 20-20 retrospective of the event. DJ & Brooks, Golf Channel’s coverage, Reed, the course - all of it expertly handled.
All these podcasts with Soly and Job has been really good. I found two things especially interesting.
Firstly, it’s interesting to hear the same people making fun of Justin Rose for his comments about Hazeltine and the set up being to easy and then spending like fifteen minutes complaining about the course and the set up at Le Golf National.
Secondly, in substantial part the analysis for the losing and winning side has been the same in '16 and '18. In '16 the Americans said that they won since the simply played better while Europeans complained about the set up and pointed towards Westwood, Sullivan and Willet for playing like crap and for almost the rest of the team for not playing good enough. In '18 it is almost exactly the same but the tables have turned.
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Anyone else bothered by the lip-smacking in this interview? You both sounded like you were dehydrated…
Ha ha no doubt. I found myself wanting to chug water while listening.
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One thing that I am taking away here in the aftermath:
I agreed with Soly on what we can expect from Whistling Straights, as far in the opposite direction as we can possible get. Massive length, no rough, bombers paradise.
Why not have the home team pick the course, but then have a neutral person/committee decide the setup? Let’s all get reasonable. I am ready for a good, close RC again.
They kind of tried this at Hazeltine. See Let 'er rip, there's no rough at Hazeltine for Ryder Cup especially:
“U.S. captain Davis Love III and European captain Darren Clarke said they have a gentlemen’s agreement to keep the course on the up and up. `We agreed that we were going to get out of the business of the home team setting the pins and the other team not knowing,´ Love said.”
Not surprisingly Europe felt like the course set up favoured US and decided to set up Le Golf National to gain Europe.
This is not really something new though, it has been the case for decades. For more info: Home captains key in plotting course to Ryder Cup victory – The Irish Times
The point of this was, the Euro Tour players bitched about the setup. And it was to also get out in front of the people that would tell us that we were whining about the golf course, to point at that and say, yes there is a precedent for this and is not just sour grapes.
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There’s a major difference in '16 and '18. That '16 European team was simply just not strong. It’s hard to argue the same for this US team. There was no excuse to get wiped this badly.
1, The Euro’s didn’t bitch about the set-up in 2016. One player (Rose) made some sensible comments based on his opinion.
2, The set-up for 2018 RC was not very different from how the course is set-up every year for the French Open. Some years the French Open has played even more difficult because the fairways have been baked and firm. It wasn’t like Bjorn totally changed the course set-up for the RC.
3, Since when was there no importance of hitting the fairway in golf?? LGN puts a premium on the 2nd shot but to do this you have to put it in play on the short grass. The way they talk about the course on the podcast it seems like the fairways were 10 yards wide. The Americans couldn’t get their heads around the need to keep the ball in play. The strategy in the Sat am 4balls was just crazy. One player would blast it in trouble then his partner would attempt the same shot rather than throttling back and ensuring they hit the short grass.
The overt criticism of the course set-up just masks the one-dimensional thought process of the US team. Those who adapted, played well (Thomas, Simpson etc…) Those who didn’t lost.
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Don’t forget about salty Pumpkin Pieters (it’s Fall, come on guys) comments a few weeks before this years RC. He won a bunch and still wanted to talk about the Hazeltine set up.
@Soly heard you mention again in this pod around the 29 minute mark that the US team did not know their pairings until Thursday night. Jim’s comments from the interview this morning made it sound like they knew weeks in advance - specifically the Reed/Woods, JT/Spieth pairings. Knowing you recorded this well before those comments came out, was curious to your thoughts on that piece.
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I think it’s fair to say that Reed definitely knew that it was at least a possibility that he and Spieth would be separated. He for sure could not have been blindsided.
Guys most definitely had ideas on who they believed they were going to pair with. But as of at least Wednesday night, and bleeding into Thursday, guys did not know for sure who was going to be playing with who, and in what sessions. And at least three of the “potential” pairings that were mentioned to me by players/caddies never happened.
I haven’t seen word for word what Furyk said, but I can say for sure that it was not in ink as to who would be playing with who and what sessions.
Here is what he said that I attached to. Assumed this wouldn’t be unique to just Pat and Tiger. Sounds like that is not the case.
“When I started looking at who [Tiger] would pair well with, I kept coming back to Patrick Reed,” Furyk told Golfweek . "There was always the idea that we could go Tiger and [Justin Thomas] and Patrick and Jordan, but ultimately they knew going into the week, weeks in advance, they knew they would start the Ryder Cup with Patrick and Tiger being partners.”
I could go for 3 or 4 more of these. Love that soly pushed back a bit on the “these guys love each other” thing for the euros. Still think Brooks is being underrated a bit - thought he played well enough not to be grouped with the bottom guys. Likewise, his singles opponent Casey probably didn’t receive enough credit on the euro side - dude was making birdies all over the place.
Reed was obviously garbage on Saturday but he was ok on Friday and pretty good in singles. He’s an easy target though so his Saturday round gets near 100 percent of the discussion.
Very good discussion on the course. Nailed it from all angles.
Lastly, don’t let Twitter get to you. I know you have to be on it for the job, but it’s dumb. Don’t let it dumb you down. You don’t have to respond to it even seriously consider all the dumb takes .
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I’m sorry, I still don’t understand what I consider the overestimation of the golf course on the Ryder Cup. Did the Euros set it up to favor their team, 100% of course they did. Prior to the event starting, didn’t everyone believe that the US teams’ overabundance of talent would be able to overcome that advantage? It’s not like the Euros were hitting it into the rough and people were throwing their balls out into the fairway. The US team was missing fairways with irons. Guys weren’t hitting the ball straight, period.
If the US team players can’t figure out how to manage a tight course then we should just shut the whole thing down. Isn’t the entire premise of the event to figure out which team is better at playing golf? Part of playing golf, good golf, is managing your game to the course you are on. If you can’t manage that with the talent you have then the problem is you, not the course.
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The course discussion was weird to me. They acknowledged the fact that Europe can set it up to their advantage and it was smart for them to do so, BUT still knocked the course for being set up that way, even saying “that’s not golf.” That’s just a bridge too far. It wasn’t the version of golf that YOU prefer.
Was also an awful part bagging on Molinari going 5-0, even though he hadn’t won a RC match previously, insinuating that was largely due to the golf course set up, and not the fact he’s been playing phenomenal golf all summer.
Trying to not come off as butthurt came off as very butthurt.
The whole pod could have just been 15 minutes on how badly the US sucked and then spend the rest on the post-RC drama.
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I agree with this. Every discussion could’ve been summed up with, “The US team didn’t perform when they should have and Europe did.” That’s why Europe dismantled the US, plain and simple.
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Feel like I made it pretty clear that I way underestimated the effect the golf course has on the competition. I had Euros in my ear all year telling me that this golf course was different, and I just didn’t think it mattered that much, when I think it’s very clear that it did. And the biggest knock I had on the US team was that they didn’t sack up and figure out a way to play it.
If I come out and just knock the course setup, then people are going to say I’m whining that things were unfair. It wasn’t unfair. They were completely within their rights to set it up that way. They were smart for neutralizing the US team’s greatest strength. They neutralized their best players in the process, but they had another handful of guys ready to pick the place apart, and their strategy was executed flawlessly.
Separately, what they played was a pretty dumbed down version of golf. The same question asked over and over and over. Hit the ball right here, then hit it right here. If they set the course up to ask a whole bunch of different questions, then the team with more talent would have had a much better chance to win.
And good lord… I did not bag on Molinari going 5-0. The point was that was something that in no way could have been predicted. Was it due to course set up? Of course it was! Do you think Molinari goes 5-0 at Hazeltine? This course suited his game phenomenally. Of course he’s a world class player, but it would have been equally as shocking and ridiculous if someone like Rickie showed up and went 5-0, despite not having a noteworthy Ryder Cup record at all.
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You explained yourself very clearly and fairly on the pod. It was a reasoned, adult discussion. Dudes are just hearing what they want to hear.
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Your point was clear, I just don’t agree with it. I think there is a perception that had the Ryder Cup been played at Hazeltine again this year, the US team would have won. I don’t agree. I think it would have been closer, but I can’t get past how much better the Euros played in every facet of the game. It wasn’t just driving. From the fairway they hit better shots, their short games were better, they made more putts. It was a good ol’ fashioned mollywhopping. My opinion is for that specific week the match could have been played anywhere in the world, and the Euros still would have taken the Cup home.
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