What makes a great muni? As part of our on-going series about public golf, KVV writes a love letter to Forest Park, his favorite local track. In the back half of the episode, Neil, Randy and KVV debate what makes a great muni — and what makes a bad one
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@KVV knocked it out of the park per usual!
I grew up playing the Asheville Muni and also a 9 hole dog track down the road from my house. In high school the golf teamed practiced at both. The 9-holer would let us play for free if we agreed to put the carts away at the end of the day. I can remember eating hot dogs in the smoked filled bar area with several older guys deep into their cases of beer placing silly wagers on rounds of Golden Tee every Saturday and Sunday I ever played there.
When I left for college the 9-holer sold to a developer that was going to build a new subdivision on the land. The housing crisis hit and that land sits overgrown and vacant to this day.
Which leads me to this thought. NLU should get in the course design game and buy the land. I’m thinking a @MerchCzar approved Pitch-and-Putt that’s open at night.
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Love this idea. Pair up with TFE and make all of the greens templates so we can teach the youths and new golfers a thing or two about GCA
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This rocked. I moved away from home after college and picked up golf by playing 9-holes after work at a local muni with a handful of friends. I don’t get back there as much as I’d like, but every time I do memories flood back:
- Chasing my shot on the 9th based on feel because it was too dark to see
- Hunting for balls in the woods with a grocery bag and getting poison ivy
- Buying one single Yuengling from the pro-shop but saving it until the end. (Gotta earn a cold one)
Great episode. And the instrumentals went crazy!
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Just a great episode. So many memories of playing the short 18 holer in our town.
And that photo of the bench on YouTube was great.
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Munis should include a pitch repair tool with the greens fees and a short diagram or video playing on repeat showing how to fix them.
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My friends in my league leave ball marks so rarely that they don’t seem to know when to look for one.
I give them shit and fix them when I’m paying attention, but we’re talking maybe one per person per week
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I still play Randy’s Little Miami when I need to get my game back in shape or practice rounds. I wish I played more there when first started, playing on a course where is really hard to lose a ball is a great place for beginners. The place where you can be the last person (they love me because I walk and they don’t have to wait for the cart to come back).
Even now, I don’t belong to a club and play the county courses. Hamilton Co gives 2 week advance tickets to make tee times if you do your handicap with them.
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I have a divot repair tool from a public course in RVA that did this. He had a local machine shop donate them (their name and number is on it). Loved it.
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Really enjoyed this one. Everything the guys described as their ideal muni brought to mind my favorite sub-category of munis, golf courses on military bases.
When I was at Ft. Sill in Oklahoma I would play the course 4-5 times a week. Course didn’t have many frills, but it was $100 a month for unlimited walking play with my rank. Unless you got stuck behind a group of retirees you could get around in about 3 hours if you played decent. The front-9 is a pretty flat and uninteresting layout, but a 350 yard par 4 can play wildly different depending on the direction of the wind. Almost every hole on the back-9 has a quirk that makes it fun.
The coolest part was on weekend mornings, one of the Generals would host a stableford game. Didn’t matter your rank, if you showed up at first light ready to go and could keep pace, you were welcome to join. Finishing 18 holes and being home before breakfast with the whole day ahead of you is one of my favorite feelings, something you really only experience at a muni.
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have to starkly disagree with @MerchCzar’s take on Bobby Jones in Atlanta. Falls squarely into the mega-muni category that is far exceeding real municipal territory.
muni-adjacent bonafides
- used to be a real municipal course. now public land leased to a private ownership group
- 5 hole short course that is free
- himalayas putting course that is apparently now free. from like 2021-2024 it was $10 to play and absurd. and they didn’t even have a normal putting green alongisde it.
- sits in a flood plain and 2-3 times a year the course will be closed for days or a week at a time because its under 3 feet of water.
insane things they do that make it not a muni
- driving range is $21/bucket. 70 balls. objectively a nice driving range though. has trackman data now. price was $21 before that though.
- average price is about $60 for 9 holes on the weekend. it is a 9 hole course now.
- that is a walking price. a cart is $30. For 9 holes. The cart used to be included in the price and there was no walking price. They at least didn’t force you to take the cart, but they forced you to pay for it.
- there’s a food hut with snacks and beer, but the clubhouse has a very elevated restaurant. $20 burgers, $40 steaks, $15 cocktails. Excellent food. Not a place people are hanging out.
straight up just pricing out people who would pay for municipal golf. it is serving the very wealthy neighborhood the course sits in.
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I learned to golf on the two courses at Wright-Patt in Dayton, OH. They aren’t good courses but I can still remember every hole on each of them. It was always dirt cheap too, and with as little play as they got it was like being part of a private club (without the good conditioning.)
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This is good intel. I tried to acknowledge that I don’t live there anymore and was calling out that I appreciate the city trying to do something different.
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Totally fair. It’s a love hate relationship. I fucking love the golf course. I love what they did with making it 9 reversible holes. It’s so much fun.
They did not do that to make it a muni that continues to serve city of atlanta constituents. It’s there for the people who live in Chastain and South Buckhead.
A true thrill and delight to hear @Randy call out Little Miami Golf Center while listening this morning, the place that I learned the game with my Grandpa and Great Uncle during the Tiger-slam days!
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Thinking of the Columbus courses throughout my listen. I can’t stand Raymond Memorial (of recent design disasters fame lol) because the staff all seem to hate their lives and are always in a grumpy mood like I’m annoying them by trying to play the course. Enjoy the rest of the Columbus tracks and play in a league out at Champions. So many frustrating quirks to that place but it’s my place so in a way I love them. A thrill & delight indeed
Loved the pod overall.
Maybe I’m just a poor…but $100 being the cut off price for what makes something a muni or not seems a tad…steep? Could be a regional cost of living deal/perspective as well…but I figured the number would have been more towards $50 a round.
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Was thinking the same thing as public courses around Ohio top out at around $125 for the nicest courses on a weekend tee time. The muni’s are all $50ish. That being said I played a dog track out on long island one time that was $75. I think I’m just more spoiled with affordable golf than I realize.
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COVID has really encouraged courses to bump their prices up to previously-unseen limits. When we filmed Strapped Baltimore, both Forest Park and Rocky Pointe were under $35 to walk. Both are touching $50 now, and on a weekend, it’s like $75 with a cart. I didn’t want to limit it to $50, but there is something mental about crossing the 100 mark for me.
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Not sure there’s more than 1 or 2 courses in Denver that are below $50 on the weekend. The worst course by me (still not terrible TBH) is $47 to walk on the weekend.
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