Your Ryder Cup - if Tourney starts next week


#41

Am I the only one who thinks sending Bubba (qualified) and Webb (likely qualified or hard to not pick if he has any form this summer) and the potential of Tiger actually being selected is a recipe for disaster? The addition of those guys would be a far cry from what won in 2016 and dominated in 2017.

Berger, Xander, Kisner, Harman, Bryson, Finau are all going to miss out in favor of a 2012 rerun. I was an early optimist because the US finally had new blood entering the equation. I guess results show the guys who earned it but I hate the qualifying process.


#42

The rush to throw Tiger on the team is bizarre. I get it from an interest standpoint, but from a competitive standpoint why is everyone so pumped up to have a player who’s only been on one winning RC team in seven tries?


#43

Well Tiger has been fairly good in the Ryder Cup. 97 and 2012 are the only really bad performances by him. Most of the teams he was on were rather weak to be honest. I think as long as he continues to trend well than no issue if he makes fhe team.


#44

I think #theprofesser is low key a natural for this environment. I see him loving the team-vibe and really getting involved in the process and prep for the tournament. May drive teammates crazy, but if you can pair him with someone who can gel with that, it could be really fruitful.


#45

The points thing is fascinating now that I take a closer look, and worth noting that winning a major is going to be worth 3960 points (assuming prize money is equal to Masters), which would instantly take anyone on the tour past where Rickie currently sits in 6th (3815). That double point bonus for the majors is why Reed is top of the rankings.

In other words, there are still a ton of points out there, and there is also a chance we could end up with an interloper earning their way onto the team with a hot weekend. No one was talking about Jimmy Walker at this point in 2016, I suspect.


#46

Yup. Right now P reed is probably a lock because he created a nice cushion (3k points ahead of 8th) for winning the Master’s, which is the 2nd highest paying major. He also plays in more events than most guys.


#47

Bubba and Webb were a disaster in 2014. Anyone remember Webb straight skyed his opening tee shot during Friday fourballs? I don’t want them on the team but know Bubba will make it off points.

Tiger is on this team, if healthy. The plane to Paris isn’t taking off without him. It’s done. And I don’t think there is a solid argument to be made for anyone else to make the team over him. Experience counts for a lot and the team LOVES him. The young guys are going to sooo jacked up to play with him.


#48

Titleist Bubba is nothing like Volvik Bubba.

Having said that, not sure Bubba in Paris is such a great idea.

Makes me think of this image:
imagehttps://media.giphy.com/media/XTdfBjn5yc1j2/giphy.gif


#49

Oh My…Question: What has Tiger done under pressure in this return?

  • couldn’t close at Valspar after being in a great position
  • hit tee ball OB at API when he had a chance to post and force Rory to play great coming in (Rory played great, but did so after Tiger blew up)
  • Played an incredible Saturday at the Players before being put on Course Record watch and then proceeded to play rest of the round +1
  • Played great to make it seem plausible Webb could be caught - was T2 and lead was down to 4 and he was 350+ in the fairway on his nemisis the 14th…made bogey and finished T11

I’m sorry to all the Feline lovers our there but I don’t want this guy anywhere near a club in a pressure situation in France. Let him motivate and play pretend C-O-D with his headset. But do not put him on this team for the sake of it.

Guys I’d argue for getting a captain’s pick ahead of him:

Berger - won each of last two years; competitive, young, probably future team player next 10 years
Cantlay - stud, has contended and shown he has all the ability of guys who we praise more than him because he was injured and he can be a real team member for next 10 years
Xander - ROY, won an elite field last year at Tour Championship and also a likely team member for next 10 years
Bryson - like him or hate him (I don’t particularly like him) he plays well in every event his back is against the wall, including the US Am which is Match Play. He made the US Open via qualifier last year when it was only option and ,won the JD when it was his only option in to the Open. Guy gets it done in pressure packed spots.
Harman - has done everything except earn points because the points system sucks

But sure - pick Big Cat because he is healthy. Seems logical to me. Why America has won 3 RCs in my time following golf and 2 of them were without TW


#50

Sheeshh!!! Shall we dig up all the collapses/poor play of the individuals you mentioned ahead of Tiger?

Daniel Berger - best finish T11 at Sentry (tiny field) and Waste Management this season.
Cantlay - agree he is a stud but he is still very green. Has one or two good rounds a tourney and drifts off. Has not really been in contention this calendar year and MC’ed at the most pressure packed tourney of the year - the Masters
Xander - Clap it up for him at the Players. Other than that, hasn’t sniffed contention this calendar year (best finish T9).
Bryson - Dude is hit or miss. Either on (and hasn’t been able to close - hold John Deere) or has MC’ed.
Harman - Golf is entertainment and viewers would select Big Cat over Harman 10 times out of 10.

Just can’t get on with these guys performing better then Tiger this year or have shown the ability to excel under pressure. Tiger is the greatest winner of all time - that experience is so much more valuable then potential that has yet to be backed by success.


#51

Yes! I love the comebackers here. I am with you, and that is why they are all likely on the bubble as Captain Picks. only a few guys can lock up enough points to qualify on merit.

That said - I’m going to note the greatest individual winner of all time.
Cats record in Ryder Cups as a player:
13-17-3 (4-1-2 as a singles and under .500 as a team player). - I liken this to the commentary we’ve heard about the circus it is to play in his presence with crowds, etc. Even at the Ryder Cup, this is amplified.

US record in Ryder Cups when TW is playing on team: 1-6
US record in Ryder Cups when TW is not playing since he came on tour: 2-1 (2-0 home, 0-1 away)
US record in Team Comps when TW is a Vice Captain (2-0)

Just saying, numbers are numbers. Also, many of us were all about that untapped potential pre-16 since the old guard had failed to win in any consistent or impressive manner. Which is why I note adding guys that will be on these teams for the next decade plus to the mix. The strength of the team should auto-qualify (DJ, JT, Speith, Fowler, Koepka)

pls note this is not hostile aggression against TW, feline lovers, or the US chances; this is just a debate in a forum


#52

I do love a good debate but your points against Tiger are nothing but severe cherry-picking.

Like you mention, numbers are numbers. And these are straight from the PGA Tour site for the 2018 season, updated as of end of the Players.

You want to look at that table and tell me you want Daniel Berger on the team over him?

His event results may not be on par, largely because he’s played less events, but his Strokes Gained and scoring average stats absolutely back up the idea that he is as competitive as his peers. All this, without even getting into his experience, leadership, and the fact he contributes points roughly 50% of the time he tees it up at the RC.

I love all those other players and wish they could all make the team but combining recent performance with all the other intangibles, I 100% believe Tiger should be on the team over those other guys. Still tons of golf to be played but I fully expect him earn his way onto the team, leaving no doubt that he’s a worthy captain’s choice.


#53

If he earns his way on I’d be very impressed and own I was wrong. Can he earn his way on without a W and the help of WGCs? To be determined. If he gets the W then yes, debate over.


#54

To me, this is the interesting part of the debate.


#55

I was looking at this for Tiger yesterday, but what really jumped out to me about this list was Webb Simpson’s ranking:
image


#56

I really hope Webb won’t sneak into the top 8. Because the top 8 looks fine currently. But Webb would force out Brooks or Phil which is not ideal.


#57

This is overstated. He’s not even eligible at the moment so if he starts getting “help” from them, he’s certainly earned that help. And Bridgestone is the only one left before RC so it’s not like he’d be getting a massive helping hand. He’d have only played one WGC during the cycle.


#58

1-Reed
2-JT
3-DJ
4-Spieth
5-Bubba
6-Rickie
7-Brooks
8-Phill

There’s your auto qualifiers so far.

Picks
Kuchar-I don’t dislike Kuchar, that would be too harsh, but I am in no way a fan of his. He hardly ever shows up in these events and I feel like most of points come from best-ball and alternate shot matches where he has help.
Harman-USA needs a guy like this in Paris. He will quietly knock off big names and silence the crowds. NCAA’s he made Fowler cry after whooping him on the last 3 holes because Rickie didn’t pick up the flag after finishing first. Love it.
Tiger-form will continue to to improve. no way he isn’t on this list.
Xander-will probably sit all day Friday and if he doesn’t then he plays the best ball and is paired with an Alpha like DJ or Bubba.

Yes I’m skipping Webb even though he has a big lead in spot 9, and I think the captain will definitely take whoever is in the 9 and 10 spot. Webb’s only Ryder Cup points in 2012 came in four-balls with Bubba and the opponents were weak than Rose (Lawrie/Hanson, Rose/Molinari). He was outside the top-20 in points before his win.


#59

I’m sure Brooks and Phil would slide easily into the captain’s picks if they fell off the auto-qualifiers. But I’m hoping that it takes more than a Player’s win to make that list, all the same. I wonder if they’re looking at the Dell Match Play tournament earlier this year for some insight on how these guys play match play.


#60

That’s a really compelling case for Bubba then, having convincingly won in Austin.

Thoughts on Webb, Harman and Kuch: I think it depends on what you’re looking for. Do you want players that have the potential for greatness but can be erratic (e.g., Rory) or do you want someone consistent and reliable?

Re-ranking the Top 10 Finishes list by percentage (minimum 25%) shows this:

RANK THIS WEEK RANK LAST WEEK PLAYER NAME EVENTS TOP 10 1ST 2ND 3RD %
T13 T12 Henrik Stenson 7 4 1 57.14%
T5 T5 Dustin Johnson 9 5 1 2 55.56%
1 1 Brian Harman 15 7 1 46.67%
T2 T2 Phil Mickelson 13 6 1 1 1 46.15%
T13 T12 Justin Rose 9 4 1 1 44.44%
T13 T26 Jason Day 10 4 2 1 40.00%
T55 T50 Paul Dunne 5 2 40.00%
T5 T5 Marc Leishman 13 5 1 38.46%
T5 T5 Justin Thomas 13 5 2 1 38.46%
T2 T2 Patrick Reed 16 6 1 1 37.50%
T27 T26 Sergio Garcia 8 3 37.50%
T13 T12 Paul Casey 11 4 1 36.36%
T5 T5 Bryson DeChambeau 14 5 1 1 35.71%
T5 T12 Webb Simpson 14 5 1 35.71%
T5 T5 Cameron Smith 14 5 1 35.71%
T2 T2 Chesson Hadley 18 6 1 1 33.33%
T13 T12 Patrick Cantlay 12 4 1 33.33%
T13 T12 Jordan Spieth 12 4 2 33.33%
T13 T12 Bubba Watson 12 4 2 33.33%
T5 T5 Tony Finau 16 5 2 31.25%
T13 T12 Ryan Moore 13 4 30.77%
T13 T12 Pat Perez 13 4 1 1 30.77%
T27 T50 Tommy Fleetwood 10 3 30.00%
T55 T50 Kiradech Aphibarnrat 7 2 28.57%
T27 T26 Rickie Fowler 11 3 2 27.27%
T27 T26 Alex Noren 11 3 1 2 27.27%
T27 T26 Jon Rahm 11 3 1 1 27.27%
T13 T12 Emiliano Grillo 15 4 1 26.67%
T5 T5 Luke List 19 5 1 1 26.32%
T13 T12 Andrew Landry 16 4 1 1 25.00%
T27 T26 Rafa Cabrera Bello 12 3 1 25.00%
T27 T26 Ian Poulter 12 3 1 25.00%
T55 T50 Tiger Woods 8 2 1 25.00%

This makes a really compelling case for Harman, although Simpson is having an excellent season. Also notice how high DeChambeau’s Top 10 finish % is.

Kuch is a different proposition altogether, his Top 10 % is only 21%, but he’s incredibly consistent, having made 30 consecutive cuts, almost double the number of the next person on the list:

RANK THIS WEEK RANK LAST WEEK PLAYER NAME TOTAL
1 1 Matt Kuchar 30
T2 T2 Jason Day 17
T2 T2 Adam Hadwin 17
T2 T2 Dustin Johnson 17

Kuchar is the model example of a player who is incredibly consistent but has a relatively low ceiling.