What must golf overcome?



Unemployment is alarmingly low @cqueen and jobs in golf are way overrated. Many are seasonal and held by folks with skills that can easily transfer into other fields.
@HoganFan52, Yeah. I’m way more concerned about communities of faith facing challenges reaching young people. Far more concerned with children of color being raised by single parents at incredibly high rates. Way worried for the growing number of homeless. And I remain concerned about seeing teenagers strung out on heroin every single day when I get off the freeway. Maybe I’ll give them my copy of Doak’s Confidential Guide. That’ll cure the fix.
I wholeheartedly apologize for bringing the mean streets of Santa Monica to life in your well-meaning thread. I’ve been out of line here. But “growing the game” really irks me. The game will endure. If your livelihood depends on it, then you better be really good at it, or maybe just find something else. Just like the rest of us.




Being the first to reply, I kinda missed the mark with this. I thought we were discussing ways reasons that it would be hard to grow the game.

I think golf is doing fine and I am all for shrinking the game if anything.


@Lazstradamus maybe if those kids had been involved in golf they wouldn’t have been on drugs?

I see your point and where you are coming from trust me, the homelessness and drug epidemic is huge here in the Seattle/Tacoma area. And I’m not here to preach the growing the game concept, I don’t think it should be grow the game just more of teach the game. I’m cool with courses closing and the land getting used for better things. But I’m not okay with saying that everyone should sell out because they want to get a shit ton of money for their land.


Where did you first get high?

  • Caddy Shack
  • Cart Barn
  • Bag Room

0 voters



*puts phone down and walks away.


No no, you were in line with the spirit. But I’m glad we can all be here for @Lazstradamus during his existential crisis.


Thank for the support! In all honesty, it’s a hard hard time for me. I’m going to a kirtan right now to settle down a little bit.


Shit, man. The banter aside, if you need someone to talk to, send me a private message. I’m a deacon in my church and I’ve got some experience just listening.


Thank you! That’s what I love about churches. There’s always an ear. I was at church last night with my daughter and we were talking about how you can live God’s life, but you cannot live it alone. You have to be among folks with faith. I appreciate the offer. Sincerely.

Right now I’m off to chant in ancient sanskrit with a bunch of women who might or might not shave their legs.


Oh F. Here we go… there goes one of the last bastions of entertainment for me without politics that tear us apart…


Yeah, sorry about that. Yesterday was a big day on The Refuge. Things were said. It went to bad places. But we mostly got it back on track. :slight_smile:

Also, I’m from the UK so I wasn’t so much descending into the muddy waters of politics as much as laughing uncontrollably at all of you. :smirk:




oof, I wish I had read the rest of the thread first.

Laz, you’re a man of the people. I hope you find many ways to help many people. I hope they know you’re looking out for them and doing your best to help.


different than expected when opening thread…

thought the Refuge was a place to get away from all “the other stuff”


A few points;

I am in Scotland, and despite the rosy picture painted by Tourist Sauce, a lot of clubs are operating a hand to mouth existence. Most don’t have much money to invest in their property, they don’t see a lot of tourists or visitor footfall and they are reliant on the same 200 or 300 people for all the money they need to operate on a shoestring.

Now, there’s no doubt most areas in the UK could afford to loose a few golf clubs and would still be well served. But it feels like we are a long way away from clubs having full membership and being in healthy financial positions where they can invest in their course and property.

Golf went through a big popularity boom in the 80s and 90s in both the UK and America. In the UK, this resulted in a few courses being built and a lot of clubs being full and feeling like they could be quite picky about membership.

I think golf has to get into the habit of introducing people to the game. Offering deals, flexible memberships, practice facilities, group coaching etc. In the UK, I don’t think regular golfers, golf clubs, governing bodies, professional tournaments, manufacturers or other golf businesses really do enough of this and collectively they will all benefit from higher participation.

I would like to see the ruling bodies pushing for 12 hole golf courses. People don’t have time to play 4 or 5 hour rounds. A 9 hole course is usually only played on the basis of budget and it usually takes even longer to play an 18 hole round at a 9 holer. Golf over 12 holes should also be cheaper as a smaller property requires less maintenance.

A well laid out 12 hole golf course could / should take 2 to 2.5 hours, which is a really good time for an after work activity during the summer. People could tee off in the UK up till 8pm in the summer and still play a 12 hole comp. It could transform it from a sport that working age people only play at the weekends to something played far more often. Meaning they can have far more family time at the weekends and get more value from their membership.

Also - we have to be conscious of not living in a NLU bubble. NLU have 144k twitter followers and 18k Youtube subscribers worldwide. As good as they are, and sure they may engage some people with the game or get lapsed golfers enthusiastic for the game again, but growing the game has to be an approach taken on all sides by all people.

So for you… do something. Encourage a friend or colleague to join you for a game, or take them to the driving range. If they hit one or two good shots, they could get the bug!


Isn’t the answer always “The lack of width and angles”


One of the biggest questions when I hear people espouse the “shorter time” theory… what changed over the last 20,30,40 years that has made it necessary to make golf a briefer experience? Or is it just that some do not value the experience as they once did?


My only thing is that I get stuck behind a group of people playing from the inappropriate tees and it makes me salty. And lots of times if I try and tell them they don’t understand me, or they just don’t fucking care. And so this makes for slow play. And also just people being ignorant.