The Buck Club


#103

18.5 should give everyone in this thread who has assumed TBC can be built for anything less a serious moment of pause.


#104

It is 1,400+ acres and includes roads, infrastructure, zoning/permitting completed, etc. so a little apples to oranges, but I still agree with you for sure. Having driven through the area numerous times to and from Denver (this site is literally half a mile east of the highway) I’ll say this is a ridiculously amazing spot for a golf course. Incredible landscape. I had no idea this was so close to actually happening - check out the screenshot below - they actually routed the course already. The squiggly road leading towards the routed holes is the road that would run through the proposed housing subdivision. The entire right (eastern) border of the golf course routing is a 500-foot cliff to the valley below.


#105

Really thought we’d have a shot on that…


#106

yeah, the 18.5 likely implies a profit on the land, and a recoup of what they believe they have put into it. Let’s see what happens. Golf course building, SPECIFICALLY when it’s tied to a housing development is very very very tricky. i.e. they normally fail at least once. Usually twice.


#107

could learn a thing or 2 from SGB @ BCN


#108

I agree. It’s just a totally different project, obviously, and I wasn’t pointing to the list price as having anything to do with TBC. Just thought it was really interesting that a few brothers from ND happened to have a really similar vision as Zac way back in '99. Certainly not GCA snobs, but the symmetry of the projects is definitely there in my opinion. Anyone hoping for some deep discount on their little Wyoming endeavor will likely go wanting as this family tallies their land holdings by section, not acre.


#109

have you heard of this family? I’m surprised I have not.


#110

Yep, my dad knows one of the brothers well and I worked with a kid of one the others. Two of them actually own a massive ranch (12,000 acres) near the prairie club in Nebraska. Apparently good ranch land and good golf land are often the same thing.


#111

Ha, my annual duck hunting trip with some buddies brought me to a place in Nebraska along the North Platte River. I recall The Wyoming Club had a lot of advertising materials at the lodge we stayed at, but those materials definitely made it seem like it was much farther along than what you link to. This was back in 2015.


#112

Haha yep they own a number of hunting lodge places as well.


#113

Anybody explored the idea of creating a public REIT to raise funds for a golf course?

Given the location on a map I don’t love TBC as an investment, but I’d still be willing to invest some amount toward the project. Feel like this would be a way to get The Buck Club off the ground since ZB has a megaphone with which to fundraise. It’s my understanding a REIT is still the only way to “crowdfund” real estate marketed to the general public. Might make for quite the annual shareholder’s meeting.


#114

How much do you know about REITs?


#115

Translation: No.


#116

I’m not sure, but I think REITs are for accredited investors only, unless it’s a publicly traded entity. I don’t think it translates at all into “crowdfunded”. I could be wrong, not my area of expertise.


#117

I don’t have any direct REIT experience. Yes, it would need to be public to be open to non-accredited investors. With ZB’s ability to create buzz and drum up interest I would think it might be something he could pull off and could become a business that invests in properties outside of just TBC (Sweetens?). He could utilize the SEC’s Regulation A+ which is supposed to “streamline” public offerings. Streamline being a relative term.

If he can do it with private money it wouldn’t make sense to go through the headache of a public REIT, but it appears fundraising has been a challenge.


#118

A REIT is a specific type of structure that companies that own income-producing real estate can qualify for, providing certain tax and other benefits, if they meet certain criteria.

REITs can raise capital in the same way that any other company can raise capital from being publicly traded on an exchange to a private placement to accredited investors and virtually everything in between, such as a private offering registered with the SEC and states where the interests are sold (which can be sold to non-accredited investors but typically must comply with state-specific suitability requirements, among other things).

Crowdfunding is distinct from REIT qualification, although a company structured as a REIT could offer interests pursuant to Regulation CF, the regs that govern “crowdfunded” offerings. However, from what I know about TBC a Reg. CF offering probably would not be what they want to do.

[Insert obvious but overly cautious disclaimer that the above is not legal advice or investment advice and any belief that it is legal or investment advice is silly and unreasonable.]


#119

I like the out of the box thinking but REITs are required to distributed 90% of their taxable income to shareholders and a certain percentage of its income has to come from either rents or mortgage interest. So it’s not an option here.


#120

Nah, this statement is incorrect. There was a well-known golf REIT called National Golf Properties that I think was bought by Goldman that owned 100+ courses. It’s probably as simple as the REIT owning the courses and some other (likely related) entity operating them in a way that the payments to the REIT qualify for the requirements you refer to. I’m absolutely NOT saying a REIT makes sense for TBC, but they certainly can own golf courses.


#121

OK I’ll clarify a bit - a REIT is a security of a collection of rent/interest income generating companies. So REITs can absolutely own golf courses. But TBC structuring itself as a REIT doesn’t seem possible. There’s also some requirements around number of owners and how much of the security the shareholders are allowed to own that complicates things further. REITs require a high number of shareholders too… I could be wrong here but I believe it’s more than fifty.

I’ve done some due diligence on REITs as potential investments for work and there’s a ton of moving parts and it’s impossible to remember it all. Anyway, it’s more complicated than just incorporating and then saying poof I’m a REIT. A REIT could own TBC but it doesn’t seem like TBC could structure itself as a REIT.


#122

Unless and until ZB gives up on the idea of a private, limited, member owned “golf mecca” any sort of capital raise with wide distribution probably wouldn’t make much sense from either the issuer or investor perspective and as @cnasty alludes to there are certain requirements to qualify for and maintain REIT status that may not be ideal for a single private golf club but that a large, publicly traded, real estate company that owns and operates tens or hundreds of golf clubs would easily comply with and benefit from. Big difference between the two (not meant to sound snarky - is just the truth - and those differences would probably be important for whatever structure ZB pursues).