How many times do you have to be told your tone is not great before you try to gain an ounce of self-awareness?
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The poll is a representation of people’s opinions. I don’t think many predictions of the future are considered factual.
At the U.S. Open at Oakmont, there were grandstands all over the place. Nearly every green (I’m saying “nearly” but I think there may have been stands at every green, but I’m not 100% certain). At the USWO a few years later (go Paula!), very few greens had grandstands, and those that did were significantly smaller.
Tickets were less expensive IIRC, spectator counts were much smaller, etc. Those are facts that support the idea that the women’s game is not as popular as the men’s game. It’s not just TV viewership (though that’s what drives the majority of the $, I agree), but people don’t attend women’s events at the same rate, despite cheaper ticket prices.
@anon68983737, guess we’ll find out, eh?
Do any of the voters have access to the information he has access to? Do you? Then what use is the poll?
Literally the person you’re saying is wrong who has access to more information than you and who you seemingly started this thread to publicly disagree with based on a hunch. Where’s your evidence that the women’s game can’t make as much as the men’s game ceteris paribus?
Your first post said that you cannot fathom why women’s professional golfers should get paid the same as men’s golfers. That’s a staggeringly aggressive take that relies on fundamental assertions you seemingly don’t want to acknowledge.
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So we’re never allowed to discuss things a commissioner says because we have less information than he does?
The evidence to back my side is out there, starting with the ratings graphic in the first post: an LPGA major on the same network got essentially the same ratings as the PGA Tour stop that week. Spectator attendance is lower at LPGA Tour stops despite often less expensive tickets.
It’s not. Should an actor in an indie film that is seen by 100,000 people make as much money as Tom Cruise? That’s the manner in which I’m using “should.”
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Stop yucking his yum. His yum is clearly making shittily toned posts that he knows are going to get angry responses, and then acting surprised/offended when people react accordingly. Rinse and repeat until the end of time.
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Narrator: We won’t
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Should the world’s premier athletes in a given sport make less money simply by virtue of being women?
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That’s not accurate.
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I don’t watch as much LPGA because I simply don’t know the players as well. But it’s gotten better with things like Twitter and Instagram. But I can say with certainty that I would watch an event @LPondgolf is in simply because I’m more “invested” from seeing her on the NLU videos and her being involved on the Refuge. Because of those simple steps, I now root for someone to succeed that I would have never known about before. I think a lot of golf fans want to like, watch, and follow the LPGA, but “the keepers of the takes” don’t make it very easy.
We literally have proof in the game of golf itself that women can bring in as much or more money with what is happening in Korea (and possibly other Asian countries, but I’m not completely sure). But still in the USA we keep the same view of Men=big money and Women=no money. It’s fascinating to see people fall all over themselves trying to defend their outdated and quite frankly, wrong opinions about why women’s golf is inferior. Like you @AnOlGoatTrack I would absolutely watch LPGA centered golf content. But very few people are producing it right now.
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I think the big key here is something he said early in the podcast. When he started their foundation was supporting 5,000 junior women golfers a year. Now they’re supporting 100,000. He also said that when he started it was 85% men in the game, mostly white, and about 15% women. Now it’s 38% women. As the years go on and more girls get into golf, there will be more voices to say “Hey, we would like just as much opportunity as the men”.
The wall will come down. Somehow I believe Mike Whan might have more insight into that than @iacas. No one is arguing that the women need to be paid just as much as the men just because. But if they’re given the opportunity to market themselves the same way as the men, things will change, because I can tell you right now the future generation is not the same as the current generation. These kids coming up are way more interested in diversity, inclusion, fairness, and empathy than the generation that’s running things now. They will not accept what’s being accepted currently.
Edit: Also, @LPondgolf I know you’re pretty close to me, so let’s play some time.
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Have you addressed any of the dozens of questions in this thread about rectifying the disparate advertising practices for these events or sponsorship opportunities for the players in them? Have you considered that mandating equal purses (which is how tennis did it) might have a considerable impact on this underlying disparate treatment? This thread’s sole function appears to be getting people to agree with you that you’re smarter than Mike Whan.
It’s literally the argument you’ve been making for 70 posts. People keep telling you that these are the best athletes in the world at what they do, and you keep ignoring them or telling them they’re wrong or comparing the best women golfers in the world to an actor in a film with a viewership smaller than local TV commercials.
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No, it isn’t. Not even close. They’re not paid less “simply because they are women.” This isn’t a case of women doing the same job but being paid less.
I agree, but one of the questions here is that Mike Whan — who absolutely has more information than any of us, but who could still be wrong, or optimistic, or whatever — seems to think we’re closer to that than most people who voted in the poll.
I’m trying to discuss:
- When we can get there.
- How we can get there.
Part of that is, to me, understanding where we are now. I don’t think that if you just switched the TV contracts, the women would get the same ratings as the men. The women don’t get the same spectator counts at similar tournaments now, even with less pricy tickets.
I think USGA/LPGA Girls Golf is doing great things. My daughter was involved in that, first as a player then as a mentor. I think the future is bright, but it’s still the future. Mike Whan seems to think it’s coming sooner. I think most people in the poll disagree with how soon it’s coming.
where did that mandate come from? the orgs who run each of tennis’ grand slams? So would the comp be the USGA, R&A, and PGA making that move for their majors?
A few thoughts,
1)Im not going to get pissed off about your post, I just wish you took three seconds to do research
2) while its a nice tagline to want equal purses, what the women want is an opportunity to make a good living. in 2019 the 125 player on LPGA made 64k playing in 22 events, meaning off the top 25ishk went to a caddy for their base rate (not including percentage fees. Then add in travel, lodging, food etc and theyre literally making no money. Imagine being the 125th best at another profession and not making any money. Also realize on LPGA only top 100 keep their full card.
meanwhile the 125 on fedex in 2019 made like 877k
- lets get to economics. the LPGA has seen an increase in official prize money from 2010(Whan 1st yr) to 2020 of 80.72%, which compares to a 45.45% increase in official prize money on the PGA tour
Major purse increases are as follows from 2010-2020
LPGA-
British- 80%
KPMG-91%
US Open- 70%
ANA- 55%
PGA-
Masters- 53%
PGA- 46%
British- 47%
US Open- 66%
while thedollar amounts arent comparable, it proves Whan knows what hes talking about and has a track record of out performing the PGA tour in terms of meaningful purse increases for his players. Super sad to see him go
- to your point about viewership, it takes creative thinking and bold action. Hell, NLU took a shot in the dark on Lauren sponsoring her. Now tens of thousands of people have atleast seen/heard her name through some form of NLU content. Thats huge for her, for womens golf, etc. The more people invest in these women the more people will realize they’re really fucking good, compelling, and entertaining.
Also, not once has the LPGA stepped in and tried to manage any NLU/Lauren content/partnerships. They actually promote the hell out of it. Not so much on the PGA tour side
You know how else you do that? network TV, or as it appeared in the POD Mike Whan’s biggest priority.
To dismiss the equal purse argument to ratings is lazy at best. Numbers in purse increases show the LPGA is winning.
Also your poll is irrelevant, it doesn’t matter if it takes 5 years or 20 yrs, the point it its trending in the right direction, and sometimes things worth fighting for take time.
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Billie Jean King threatened to boycott the US Open in 1973 unless there were equal purses.
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I’ll be in Houston first week in February 
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This is one of the reasons why I wish Michelle Wie had been the LPGA’s Tiger, or something even halfway there. I think she could have single-handedly closed the gap substantially, had she won more early and more often. I had high hopes. She turned pro in 2005, and my daughter was 3 at the time, and I hoped she’d do a bit of what Arnie did, and Tiger did.
If you have the numbers handy, are those per-event purses (average purse size) or are they just the total for the season? If they’re the latter, do you have the event counts for each?
seems like the best place to start is applying pressure there. week-to-week difference between LPGA and PGA Tour is a massive hurdle. They aren’t one business, the money just can’t get reallocated to create parity overnight.
Each of those three organizations runnings their men’s and women’s championships could make that change overnight.
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lpga has added 9 events since 2010, PGA has added 4. If you factor in the events added the LPGA is up 58% when you adjust for added events, PGA 35%
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Thanks.
Do you think the increases will accelerate, decelerate, or remain relatively steady?