Elon Musk Negative Vibes Only (TSLA to 1500?)

There isn’t a thread on this guy, so let this be the place to talk about “him” (Let’s act as if he doesn’t have roughly 7 personalities).

Tesla Car Elon - The guy made a pretty damn good car. It’s relatively affordable, it’s packaged well, it works. Some issues around the edge but he brought EV and OTA software to mass market cars forcing a trillion dollar industry to change.

Autopilot Elon - He is the only one, in an industry full of high IQ experts, that thinks you can do full autopilot with cameras and no LIDAR. This is either some next level shit, possibly the greatest “this can actually work and no one else thought it could” since the Wright Brothers, or it’s all smoke and mirrors. This self driving shit is fucking sink or swim, and he is going against pillars of academic and research excellence saying you can do it all with cameras and a fast chip. It seems like not only is Tesla building EV cars, they have also procured a state of the art chip to run the autopilot software in their cars. Apple spends a couple bil a year developing their A chips, so has Elon been able to make something just as cutting edge with 1% of the budget?

SpaceX Elon - My favorite Elon. Capitalism is breaking as oligopolies form in defense, parts of tech, and healthcare. NASA was stalled with Boeing and Lockheed not innovating and making insane, safe profits on old shit. SpaceX changed the damn game. He has a great COO and team there (which I think is the biggest difference between SpaceX and Tesla) and they are pushing the boundaries with great results.

The Boring Co Elon - Adjacent to The Buck Club, I’m not sure this is a real thing. These tunnels are fucking hilarious. They move like 100 people an hour on a skating Tesla. I love the idea of trying to disrupt the infrastructure cost in the US (which is insanely high thanks to our broken Capitalism) but this ain’t it. It’s the right club just the wrong shot shape. You can’t build a tunnel and then use personal cars as the “moving vehicle” inside them.

Horny Elon - Guy loves the crazy ones. Completely on brand and will likely cost him 9-10 figures down the road. Re2pect on the attempt with Amber Heard. I don’t get the Grimes thing.

Hyperloop Elon - Nothing difficult about vacuum sealing miles of tubes. Just lay down some high speed rail please like the Japanese.

Twitter Elon - Completely off his rocker lately.

At the end of the day. This guy is super competitive and I love it, but some of this stuff just seems a little too out there. However, he landed 3 fucking rockets back on earth (one on a floating barge at sea) and has the best EV tech out of like 500 years of combined automotive competition experience, which he did in ~10-15 years (I know he isn’t a Tesla founder but he has ran the day to day for a while).

work in progress


There’s no question he’s out there, but if you haven’t read the Wait But Why series on Elon I encourage you to do so. Sheds some light on what his overarching goals are and some insight into why he does what he does.

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Brace yourself for the “yeah but there are other cars better than Tesla” and “nerrnerr you could build better rockets, it’s not that amazing” comments. He moves the needle on some issues I think are important —-anything that at least tries to push us away from burning fossil fuels and towards fully autonomous driving I am all for.

It’s simple. -Gas powered cars are killing the planet and people driving them are still killing other people at a horrifying rate - but we don’t bat an eye because we have lived with that as our reality our entire life. With all the political talk about global warming - I am more supportive of someone trying to do something about it than people that just point fingers and say “all you have to do is vote for the right people and they will fix it”

So, a bunch of stuff to unpack.

I’ll say right off the bat that I think he’s a douche. Just, like, a complete turd of a human being. I have no desire to meet him or spend any time with him. Maybe he’s on the spectrum, which explains some of it, but not all. He’s warped.

That being said, he definitely has moved the needle on some things. SpaceX is a great company doing things that needed to be done. Is it’s success extraordinary, or just rocket science catching up to where it should have been years ago? I don’t know. Smarter people than me can answer that.

Tesla changed the car industry. You can’t deny that. Not only did it innovate, but it did so in a way that scared the big companies into competing. And they proved there was a market for EV vehicles if done well.

But I think Tesla’s days, medium to long term, are numbered. They had a clear ten year run at a market with no competitors. But the competitors are catching up and by the end of this year you’ll be able to get a BMW, an Audi or a Jag that do what a Tesla does. And they’ll be better cars. It’s a taste thing, but I’ve never really liked the look of Teslas. And given the choice now I’d rather have an iPace or a e-Tron. They are better looking, more interesting and have a better dealer network.

Teslas are also wildly expensive in the UK. The price point is higher than an S Class!

Am I glad he existed? Yes. Would I rather someone else was doing this? Yes.


He also gets an obscene amount of credit for a lot of the work that hundreds of engineers do. I have friends that have worked both places on really inspiring stuff, but you’ll never see their name attached to it, even though they’ve had a direct measurable impact on those projects. Elon is an incredibly smart man who has made a tremendous difference to not only the fields his companies touch, but the cultural attitude towards making science cool, which I think is the thing he should be most admired for. Yes he’s a giant weirdo and gets too much credit for some things, but I’m of the opinion that he’s just a man-child who finally has the time and energy to devote to being a weirdo.

I totally agree with you, but to an extent.

Last year I read his biography, and it was pretty eye opening to learn that he literally designed SpaceX’s first rockets on a napkin and then did the build out in Excel, just with his own knowledge.

Of course as companies grow into the monster SpaceX is today there are so many integral parts of the team, and he just gets credit for a lot of it now because he’s the face of the company. But he also gets credit for a lot of that because spent most of his newly created wealth crashing rockets over and over again until they finally got it right on their last possible try before they had to close shop.

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Theyre not entirely cheap here either. Once my Toyota dies, i’ll be buying one. Sure, base model Model 3’s can be had in the high 30s. But almost any other model and youre quickly approaching 90k.

Right, my point is there’s a difference between doing some flight physics and doing the overarching structure of the rockets, and then actually doing the dynamic load modeling, the design of the propulsion systems (you can read about Tom Mueller here, awesome story https://www.uidaho.edu/engr/news/features/tom-mueller), the metallurgy requried for cryogenic fuel storage, and all the other small details that are the most important part of rocket design. He’s absolutely a brilliant guy, and it’s not really his fault he gets too much credit/blame, just a byproduct of our desire to simplify everything to the point we can easily digest.

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I’ve got a few friends at both Tesla and Spacex. The only recent thing I’ve heard was from my buddy in Reno (this was the weekend after the January layoffs). He’s subject to hyperbole, but his direct quote when asked on his thoughts about his CEO was “He is the absolute worst that the human race has to offer.” Thought that said quite a bit about him. He was not one of the individuals that was laid off and mentioned that he really enjoys his job and the work that he does. Interesting imo.


How about the time he wanted to help save those Thai children from the flooding cave last year and the authorities told him “thanks, but no thanks” and so he repeatedly alleged that the hero diver leading the rescue job was a paedophile…


As I said above, he’s a scumbag.

The Thai diver thing was mental. But what about the time he said that he used to put time in his diary to spend with his kids, then was all proud of himself when he ‘realised’ he could be with his kids, but still just carry on working while they amused themselves in the corner. Like, yay that childhood neglect is a positive convenience to him.

That’ll work out well for them. No self harm, drug addiction and spending his billions on therapy at all.

Yeah that was bizarre. He doubled down later on too by spouting off some crap about the guy not suing him as for why he was right. Some rich and powerful people shouldn’t have Twitter…

Just go back and trace all the crazy random shit he’s done and look at Teslas stock fluctuate. I remember people went nuts after he went on Rogans podcast.

I honestly have so many thoughts I could probably write a 500 page book at this point

Basically he’s a fraud who has not accomplished shit besides being maybe the best salesman of all time

Had to be kicked out of PayPal after running it into a cash crunch.

Tesla SX needed massive help from Nissan and Daimler, and the model 3 has horrendous quality. None od these models has ever been profitable and probably never will be. Ignoring government subsidies and the company would have been bankrupt long ago

Gwynne shotwell os impressive but SpaceX as a whole is completely unprofitable.

4 board members are (as of tonight) not seeing re-election. This was an 8-k on Good Friday at 7pm ET. He has an autonomous investor day on Monday which the company doesn’t use lidar(the current estimate of best way to proceed with autonomous driving) earnings on Wednesday which I estimate a loss of between 400-500 million, and a letter due to the judge regarding a settlement with the SEc

Also model 3 demand is dead in the United States, Europe, and never existed in China. This will go down as one of the all time company blowups combining theranos and Enron


Oh and space rockets are basically commoditized at this point and has undersubscribed financing rounds for the last 3. That is really bad. They are toast. The economics of reusable rockets aren’t actually pretty weak, I believe it takes >6 launches it to be economically viable

Dont Even get me started on the solar city deal! Fuck this guy he is a huuuuuge scumbag


Straight from the horses mouth. This is either a once in a century level breakthrough or fraud…little in between at this point with these quotes.

“This is far more detailed than most people would appreciate,” Musk said after Bannon finished his presentation. “At first it seems improbable. How could it be that Tesla, who has never designed a chip before, would design the best chip in the world, but that is objectively what has occurred.”

“Lidar is a fools errand,” Musk said. “Anyone relying on lidar is doomed. Expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices. Like one appendix is bad well how about a whole bunch of them? That’s ridiculous. You’ll see.”

I was intending to buy a Tesla 3 before the price for what I wanted shot up to $50,000 from $42,000. That doesn’t reflect on the guy, I know, but I thought that sucked.

I’m down the middle on Elon Musk the person. He says some crazy shit, sure, but he endures some crazy shit, too. The taking private at 420 comment that got him in trouble with the SEC was in response to a group of crazed Twitter short-sellers, a breed of people that if there is a God, would be fishing through dumpsters for food while barking at the moon. Intentionally spreading false rumor to devalue someone or something is its own special circle of Hell. That said, Elon should probably sit back, spark up and take a break. He doesn’t need to work the job anymore.


Once this thread gets over 100 replies I can virtually guarantee that Elon will have a refuge burner. Have y’all read about the stuff their lawyers do the people over on seeking alpha? This guy is the hottest of frauds.

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How do you know what they were saying was untrue? Secondly, I don’t care if he tokes up but as the CEO of a (at the time) 60B company you should not be doing that

The issue with the 420 tweet was that it was straight up fraud, a huge lie that he made up because he thought short sellers were being mean to him by pointing out simple facts. Elon is the prototypical guy who over-promises and under-delivers, instead of admitting that he keeps doubling down and doubling down.

You should be happy you couldn’t get the model 3, the build quality is atrocious. If you have any problem with the car it takes forever to get it serviced. The insurance rates on the vehicles are skyrocketing because they have a propensity to be totaled from minor accident damange.

Not sure how much elon “endures”. He has taken billions of taxpayer money to fund a company built on making the world a better place while commuting to work on a private jet. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-HCMbTDWVo )Elon also owns 5 mansions in southern california. Please read up on the solar city bailout and how much money the musk family benefitted from that fraudulent transaction.

Short-selling is a positive aspect of the capital markets, any competent CEO ignores short sellers and simple executes on the business plan they have put in place. Elon is the most ggressive against short sellers simply because it gives him an excuse as he keeps failing. (without a capital raise tesla will be bankrupt in <12 months)


I’m talking about dangerous whackadoodles like this: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tesla-musk-short-seller-restraining-order-20190421-story.html

And I’m also not saying Elon Musk is God, or infallible. He’s fucked up, not as much as Trump, more than Bezos, Thiel or Gates. But Tesla is what got Detroit off their asses to make better cars that didn’t burn fossil fuels, and ever since then, Big Oil has been fighting tooth and nail to run him down. Sometimes he helps them by doing stupid shit that he should get called out for. But building a car that doesn’t run on gas isn’t a bad thing. Maybe Mercedes/Porsche/BMW/Toyota will make a better EV. They wouldn’t have for years if Tesla didn’t disrupt the marketplace.

I also know more than a few satisfied Tesla 3 owners. It sucks it now costs 2/3 again the price of a Mercedes C-Class, when they used to be even. But I’m also not satisfied with basic stock, so that has something to do with why its now $50 grr, too. I’m actually hoping it drops again so I can pull the trigger. I want the car. It holds four sets of golf clubs. It goes 300 miles on a $12 charge. If I’m not a suicidal asshole, I’m surer I won’t die in it than in my Civic EX with the turn signal and backup cameras, and I can deal with having to get it serviced.

And Elon Musk, for all his faults, made that possible.